#105820 - 01/27/04 07:07 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Excuse, me David, but that is not the case at all. The Magic Castle can only entertain 480 people a night, and we hire 8 magicians every nite.
Magicians from all over the world would be happy to work at the Castle for free, so there is no real need for the Castle to pay more. In the same way, the Tonite Show only has to pay scale--somewhere around $300 an appearance regardless of the size of the star.
I work the Castle four weeks a year, one week in each room. I would be glad to do the same for free if it helped the club. It is my club, after all.
I would not want to contribute that way to a nightclub that was not run for the "furtherance of magic." That would be a different thing all together.
The magicians work one week, once in a great while. Milt and the employees are full time. It is their job. The employees do not "belong" to the club in the same way the members do. They have no reason to work for less than they would anywhere else.
And as for Milt, he and Bill have created one of the longest-lived and most successful restaurants and nightclubs in LA. It is also been a home for magicians from all over the world for forty years. It is still, as it was originally envisioned, "A magic convention seven nights a week."
The dues and prices are ridiculously low, compared to any similar membership club in the country. It is a huge value to any member, and most of us know it and are very grateful to the Larsens for creating it.
I think Milt has well-earned whatever money he has made from the Castle.
I get tired of all the ungrateful carping that goes on about the club. In spite of all its problems, it is still the finest magic club in the world, and is affordable even by magicians who are still struggling in their careers or long past retirement. It is a very great gift that is given to the art.
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#105822 - 01/28/04 10:45 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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David Alexander
Oh sure the Castle empoyees are all there and have been there for up to 40+ years because of the stellar pay, not for their loyalty to Milt and the AMA
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#105823 - 01/28/04 12:40 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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After spending a few days reading the posts on the Magic Castle Forum and talking to other members, it's now painfully obvious that the only reason for the creation of Castle Partners, LLC, despite what their wonderful mission statement says, isn't to make the Magic Castle more magical, but rather to generate more money for the Glovers.
I'm not against a business making money, but from what I've experienced, the Magic Castle wasn't started with the sole intention of being a money machine. It was, and still is, a real life dream come true.
Therefore, the question is: Will stealing the Castle from the Larsens help or hurt the Academy of Magical Arts?
Everything I've seen so far leads me to believe that the BEST CASE SCENARIO for the AMA will be a lessening of magician membership benefits. I don't even want to think about the worst case scenario.
I, for one, don't doubt for even a second, that the folks who take over the Castle will be successful financially, at least for a few years. I'll bet that under their leadership the new Magic Castle will be around for about as long as Caesar's Magical Empire or Wizards. They'll probably be making more dough than they're making now. But what about members ?
One of the deciding factors for me moving to L.A. was the close proximity of the Magic Castle.
Despite repeated requests for the CP, LLC partners to let members know what we might expect in terms of a change in the future operations of the Castle, all we've been given is a cold mission statement.
The silence is deafening!!!
Since they don't want to let us in on what their intentions may be, let's borrow the Seance Room's crystal ball and imagine for a few moments:
Hmmmm...
Raising membership dues to ten or twenty times what they are now, and allowing anyone, magician or not, who is willing to plop down the dough join the "magic" club. It'll be a real blast standing in line and talking magic with some guy who thinks The Professor was the guy from Gilligan's Island.
Getting rid of the library; it takes up too much valuable space!
Lectures? Who needs 'em.
Hey, they could hire a bunch of less than minimum wage guest workers instead of keeping on the current staff. That'll probably save some money.
I think that the one thing that wasn't factored in to the giant equation by the CP, LLC folks is what has allowed the Castle to survive when others have failed: The "Magic Bug."
Magicians know what I'm talking about.
For the unitiated, no explanation is possible; for those in the know, no explanation is necessary. However, I will say this: Without magicians, the old Lane mansion may become a magic-themed restaurant, and it will probably make money for awhile, but it will never become what people from all over the world have come to know, love, and return to over and over.
The Magic Castle will survive. It may be relocated, but the dream and the legacy of the Larsens won't be destroyed. Just as Whit Haydn says, "I go where Milt goes." Let's see how long those other guys last without magicians. 
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#105824 - 01/28/04 02:25 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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To MJMarrs:
Just out of curiousity, what leads you to believe that member benefits will be reduced,or the library will be gone, or that CP LLC would have anything to do with AMA dues, or that the lectures will not happen? And can't anyone willing to "plop down the dough" join the AMA today?
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#105825 - 01/28/04 03:06 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Mr. Flint, if your company would be more forthcoming to the membership about your aims, vision, and plans for the Lane Mansion, there would be much less need for apprehension, rumors, and speculation.
Why not tell us all what you have planned for us.
It would certainly help the members to know what to expect, and if it is going to really be an improvement on the way things are, and not take away from the experience of our members and their guests, then most will probably support your takeover. Why wouldn't they?
It's just that all of the backdoor antics and all of the secrecy about your plans for us, make the members edgy and distrustful. If you have such great ideas for improving our club members' experience, why can't we hear them?
What are your plans for the current employees?
What do you intend to do with the decor?
How are membership benefits, dues, and priviliges likely to change?
What do you plan to do differently with the entertainment?
What about the dress code, and other house rules?
How are guest passes to be handled? Will they only be available from membership, or are they being given out in other ways?
Who will be responsible for building maintenance, and heat and air, which could become even more of a problem as the building continues to age out of code?
By answering just a few of these questions, the Castle Partners could do a great deal to cut down on all the speculation.
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#105827 - 01/28/04 07:51 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Mr. Haydn,
At the next meeting between Castle Partners, Milt & your BOD representatives, we will answer questions posed to us.
With respect to Milt & the BOD, we can't answer your questions before answering theirs.
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#105828 - 01/28/04 09:43 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Richard Kaufman
The Chief Genii
Registered: 07/18/01
Posts: 12975
Loc: Washington DC
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I would suggest that the endless and numbing speculation about what Castle Partners will do should really stop until more official news becomes available. The ridiculous speculations about members' due being raised ten or twenty times, and the library being eliminated, are simply inflammatory and alarmist and not based on ANY facts whatsoever. So just put a cork in it until you have some facts and aren't just spouting a lot of nonsense.
Silence is NOT deafening. Silence means delicate negotiations are taking place and neither party wants to talk about it yet.
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#105830 - 01/29/04 03:40 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Bizzaro
Registered: 04/21/08
Posts: 72
Loc: Earth.. I think.
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There is something dark and sinister here.. that has yet to reveal itself. Time will tell.
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#105832 - 01/29/04 06:55 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Steve,
All members of Castle Partners LLC were present in the January 22 meeting with Milt & AMA representatives. They have since been posted by Dale Hindman on the Castle Forum.
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#105834 - 01/29/04 09:33 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Richard Kaufman
The Chief Genii
Registered: 07/18/01
Posts: 12975
Loc: Washington DC
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I had originally posted an interview with Diana Zimmerman here. However, upon announcing that I've decided not to post online the other three interviews I've conducted, but to print them in Genii instead, simple minds have jumped to foolish conclusions.
So, I have deleted the Zimmerman interview so that it will now appear only in the March issue of Genii.
My goal is doing good journalism AND selling magazines, and that must take precedence.
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#105835 - 01/29/04 10:16 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Chris Aguilar
Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 824
Loc: Sacramento
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Very interesting. Thank you for posting that Richard.
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#105836 - 01/29/04 11:22 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Yeah, thanks for posting that, Richard. It's nice to know that it was already secretly decided long before Milt's December newsletter (in which he said that all was well and that any speculations were unfounded) that he was to be relieved of his duties as the leaseholder and that he would still be allowed to participate in a clubhouse that he built with his barehands from the ground up. Nice indeed!
I also wonder if it was a coincidence that the Castle Partners formed two days after yearly AMA membership dues had been collected? But then again, maybe this is just "ridiculous" and "numbing" speculating by an inflamatory alarmist.
I am now convinced more than ever that this would be the perfect time for us to buy and move to a bigger and better place. This may have been just the incentive that members needed. A blessing in disguise.
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#105837 - 01/29/04 12:55 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Michael Flint wrote on the Magic Castle Forum:
"Mr. Haydn,
Many of your questions have been answered elsewhere on this forum in a new topic posted by Richard Kaufman. It is an interview with Diana
Zimmerman conducted on Tuesday January 27."
_____________________________________________
Thank you, Michael. And thanks to Diana as well as Richard for providing the interview. I still don't feel that my questions have been answered, and I suppose they won't be until the negotiations are underway again later next month.
My questions were:
What is your vision for the Castle, and what plans do you have to bring that vision into reality?
What changes do you have in mind for the decor?
What will your group do to revitalize the reputation of the club to its former "elite glory and luster?"
How do you plan to help the Magic Castle to "step into today?" What does that mean to you?
How would you describe the dream that Bill Larsen, Sr., Milt and Bill had for the Magic Castle, and what do you mean by "preserve its integrity?"
_____________________________________________
The closest thing to an answer is here:
Dale Hindman's letter to members:
"Nevertheless, substantial organizational revisions to the Academy’s governing structure can be anticipated if the Academy is to continue to manage the food, beverage and entertainment functions of The Magic Castle. Other functions of The Magic Castle may be impacted, as well. It will likely be several weeks, at least, before I have more definitive news to give you. Many of the changes will be a result of future discussions and negotiations with Castle Partners, LLC, may require amendments to the Academy’s Articles of Incorporation, By-Laws and operating policies, and will be detailed for you when they are known."
Diana's interview:
"The AMA is a wonderful magic organization, and Dale Hindman has done a fine job as President of the Board. Castle Partners would have no authority to change the AMA, the board of the AMA, or anything about the AMA."
_____________________________________________
Diana's interview:
"The Glover family wants very much to maintain the Magic Castle, revitalize it, and restore it to the luster it had years ago. The truth be known, their true goals were very much what Peter, Michael, Bob, Bill, and I had in mind. Despite the rumors, they definitely do not want to turn it into a different club, like a disco, or a magic club that magicians can’t afford or increase the rent..."
"Castle Partners is not planning to fire the staff or do anything but improve the club, and we would like Milt Larsen to continue to be part of the Magic Castle, building and innovating as he has always done. These are issues of morality and tradition, and they are very important to Castle Partners..."
"They simply want The Magic Castle to be a place of which they can be very proud. Castle Partners realizes that business people needed to be included in the managing of it, and not just any business people, but individuals who love the Castle and what it stands for..."
Milt's letter to the members:
"But I have spent the last 42 years working every day to improve the Castle and clubhouse, and make it better every year, and I think we've done that. Its a little hard to accept that a group of people who have not been involved in that effort over all these years think that its necessary to "revitalize" the Castle's "reputation" and "restore" it to its "former elite glory and luster". I'm always willing to listen, but its hard for me to imagine how our club and clubhouse would be better off in other hands."
____________________________________________
So:
I am still left without a clear idea of what we are being saved from, what vision of the Club's "reputation" and "elite glory and luster" is being pursued, and what sort of changes in staff, management, decor, and functioning we can expect if we should decide to accept a new lease from the Castle Partners, rather than leave these decrepit old digs for a better place.
The only thing concrete I saw in Diana's interview was that club membership has fallen from a high of 7000 to only about 4000 today. So I take it she wants to do more intense recruitment of new members.
That pressure to gain membership in order to pay the new minimum lease requirement, at least among the regular members has led to a lowering of standards and a great deal of debate among the membership. I would love to know more about what the Castle Partners plan to do to fix this.
Basically, I think we are being offered a new lease on less favorable terms than we had.
We are being asked to give up income, responsibility, and authority over our clubhouse in return for other, outside people managing our club for us.
Why should we even consider it, when we really need to move to a larger, safer, more handicap and elderly-friendly, more elegant, and more secure new clubhouse anyway?
--Whit
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#105838 - 01/29/04 02:42 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Bill Smith
Member
Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 1
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Whit,
To each his own, but there are a lot of great
memories in that "old decrepit digs" (your
words)!
Since I moved away from So. Cal 11 years ago,
I don't make it up to the Castle more then
once or twice a year. As one who appreciates
"Magic History", when I am at the Castle, the
memories of Bill Larsen, Peter Pit, Dai Vernon,
"Big Ed the Bartender", etc. are strong.
Last June, during The Long Beach Mystics week,
I peformed my act in The Palace of Mystery. The
last time I performed on that stage was over 18 years ago (I had not done my act in 16 years). When I stepped out on the Palace stage, it felt so comfortable, I was back home again!
In my humble opinion, The Magic Castle, 7001
Franklin Blvd. Hollywood Calif. is a sacred place!
Bill Smith AMA #R3380
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#105839 - 01/29/04 02:55 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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I can certainly understand those feelings. I share them. I have been a member since 1975. I love everything the Magic Castle stands for, and the feel of the place.
But I have to admit, a big part of the feel of the place was the membership and the employees who shared in and remembered all that history together.
The building was always very cool, but never for me the star. And as much as I hate to say it, the building is the source of most of our problems now, and will be getting more and more difficult to manage in the next ten years.
We need new heat and air, and the electrical and plumbing always seem to have something going wrong. The kitchen is way too small, as are the showrooms and hallways.
Access for the handicapped and elderly is severely restricted, and the hill and traffic on Franklin can make arriving and valet parking very difficult. I worry about safety in a building that old and so far out of current building and safety and fire codes.
There is so much we could do with more space, and a safer, more comfortable building.
If we could get away from the intense traffic on Franklin and Highland, due to the new Hollywood and Highland complex and the Hollywood Bowl, I think we might be able to attract some of our old lapsed members back. Easier access and more efficient parking would be a great help.
A larger, more modern kitchen facility with better service entrances and table access would be a boost as well.
I think that many of the people who began to feel squeezed out by the Fri and Sat night crowds might return if they had a little more elbow room, less crowded hallways, places to sit and talk quietly, better food and better service, and less pressure to have dinner every time they came in.
Kuda Bux, Vernon, Joe Cossari, Hy Berg, Johnny Platt, Whitey Roberts and all the other lights of the old days liked to hang out just to talk, and never had the kind of pressure our current crowded conditions have produced on members to eat and drink and spend money. If people could get into the showrooms easily, both members and guests, whether they had dinner or not, then life would be better for everyone, and more like the good old days of our "elite glory."
Box seats and private entrances could help draw those celebrities that have been turned off by the crowds, lines, and waits--although Nicholas Cage was in a couple of weeks ago, and evidentally there are still plenty of other celebrities like him who are willing to put up with those problems for the sake of a good magic show. Better conditions would draw even more.
Plus a real magic museum, some new feature illusions--like Irma and the sinking stool--and other possible attractions that could be added if we had room would help increase the draw of our clubhouse.
Take any of the problems brought up by the Castle Partners so far, and it seems to me that they are better solved by moving to a new place.
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#105840 - 01/29/04 04:21 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Richard Kaufman
The Chief Genii
Registered: 07/18/01
Posts: 12975
Loc: Washington DC
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Whit, I really have to question your desire to listen to anything Castle Partners has to say if the ONLY thing you say you learned from my interview with Diana Zimmerman is that the membership in the Magic Castle has decreased.
Your statement is ridiculous. In my interview Ms. Zimmerman CLEARLY explained many things regarding how Castle Partners would deal with the AMA. None of that had been stated before. There are numerous other details explained which were not elaborated on in their brief mission statement.
Read it again.
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#105841 - 01/29/04 04:36 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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No offense but since when did a statement in an interview become gospel? I don't have a say in the matter I just hope it ends up well for the members and that Milt isn' dumped on his ass to live out the rest of his life with a sense of failure because of this.
Steve V
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#105842 - 01/29/04 05:24 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Richard Kaufman
The Chief Genii
Registered: 07/18/01
Posts: 12975
Loc: Washington DC
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First there's a lot of yelling about how Castle Partners hasn't given out much information. So, information has now been given out.
What's the result? Remarks like "when is a statement in an interview gospel."
If you want to know why Castle Partners hadn't given out any information prior to the interview, remarks like that should make it plain.
You asked for information and now you've gotten it. It has answered many questions, such as how the AMA will remain an independent non-profit organization without interference from Castle Partners.
And since Castle Partners have clearly indicated that they want to keep Milt Larsen involved, I don't see how they are tossing him out, as you put it. While Milt Larsen has renovated and beautified the Magic Castle and done many wonderful things for it, it might be a good time to remember that for the greater part of its 40 year history the Castle was run by Bill Larsen, Jr., and Milt was not involved AT ALL. He was involved in other business ventures.
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#105843 - 01/29/04 05:58 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Originally posted by Steve V':
No offense but since when did a statement in an interview become gospel? I don't have a say in the matter I just hope it ends up well for the members and that Milt isn' dumped on his ass to live out the rest of his life with a sense of failure because of this.
Steve V
The tone that has been set by some members here is rational and logical, an effort to determine what is being proposed, and what is the best course of action for all concerned. We may not agree on some or ANY of this, but we can agree to follow that tone of rationality. Escalating tempers through innuendo and rumor serves all concerned poorly. Ad hominem attack negates all that precedes OR follows it in that persons argument. And speaking for people who are capable of speaking for themselves, but seem to have chosen to wait to do so, serves them badly, if at all. I'm sure Milt will speak to these issues when he feels the time is right. I for one, am willing to wait to hear what Milt has to say...
Best, PSC
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#105844 - 01/29/04 07:40 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Hi there. Well, grab a cup of coffee and be prepared, this is a LONG ramble on the matter. Most of this I have already chawed on forums at the Magic Castle site. For those of you who read this there, forgive my repeating it here. I feel these words relevant to the discussion forum here as well. So, for what it is worth, here is another view on what is happening with the clubhouse of the Academy of Magical Arts.
Yes, there are real problems that people are envisioning on the horizon given the situation betwixt the AMA and the new CASTLE LLC. But, those are only minor compared to the real underlying factor in this whole thing, and, that is our clubhouse has grown too small and too old for the AMA’s current needs.
Several years ago (long before this became a real issue) I plotted out on paper the reasons for the growth of our organization into either an expanded physical structure upon the site where we now sit, or, re-locating to some new facility that offers the expansion probabilities needed for our organization to grow into. Push has come to shove, as they say. And, as much as I love the mansion we park our collectives selves into, it is only a house with rooms and space.
The creativity that created the showrooms, the gags, the hidden surprises...that spark of imagination is still there...and, can be better re-born from a clear drawing board than one that has been designed upon for these last several years. Technology has advanced. Magic has advanced. Our performance spaces need expanding, the dining facilities need growth...everything that Whit and most folks have stated as needs I can only echo here. And, from the aspect of trying to manuever a route through our current residence when at full capacity, well, the thought of having better passageways and wider space alone excites me!
The words have been said...larger library with better hours. A well developed museum. In the right location, who is to say that a large enough theatre to support our awards show and the yearly "IT'S MAGIC" production couldn't be a part of our future venue? Perhaps a theatre of such scope that it is open to the public on regular basis (with an entrance attached to the rest of a future club house for members...), the mind boggles at the possible probables re-location can bring.
A house is only a house. A physical structure. It takes the people who live in it to make it a home. Families grow and expand. As the family gets larger, it often has to move. Leaving the environment that has been comfortable and home is rough. Anyone who has moved in their life can attest to this. We become creatures of habit, accustomed to our environments and surroundings. Change is one of the greatest experiences in the world, no matter how frightening or dramatic it may seem. And, it is change that prompts growth...growth that keeps us alive and vital...keeps our mind active, ready to learn something new, to create something better, to find that new road to move along.
Larger space means more display area for Milt's collection of variety arts artifacts. After a short talk with Milt one evening at the bar I was amazed to find out how many truly remarkable antiques and memorabilia of variety art entertainment (of which magic is an aspect) he has tucked away in stowage. Everything from the handful of props we now can see to several of Spike Jones' gimmicked musical instruments! (And much more, as I found out.) There is a wealth that can be garnered from galavanting about amidst such displays.
Already mentioned is the development of a "REAL" museum. Why can't this be something that is open on a daily basis to the general public? A money drawing affair that helps meet capital gain needs to build and develop the new arena for the club? Hollywood is a budding market for such entertainment history museums. The history of variety entertainment, magic, novelty act, dramatic...the realm of vaudeville...is one that is ripe for the sharing. And, one that Milt and those of us who are excited about facing new horizons and developments could easily bring into life. Perhaps with a small theatre for daily performances by rotating performers of magic and variety arts...a teaser to get folks hooked on the concept of somehow enjoying an evening at the actual club attached.
No matter what our clubhouse is called or referred to as, the name that is important (to me at least) is, The Academy Of Magical Arts. That is the one name that truly represents what the clubhouse is about, and, perhaps, the one name that deserves more recognition and bantering about in the public eye. Most folk know about us as, "The Magic Castle". I know several performers and practitioners of our craft/art who merely say, "...and, I'm a member of 'The Magic Castle'”. Very seldom do I hear such folk open up with, "...and, I'm a member of the Academy Of Magical Arts". In fact, I have tried that a few times when meeting clients or organizations in attempts to get my act hired. 98% of the time, I received a look that said, "HUH?" I quickly tagged it with, "Most members simply call it the 'Magic Castle'." Suddenly the client's eyes light up with recognition and wonder. "Oh," they gush, "The Magic Castle! Amazing place!”
Name recognition. What is funny is that we (The Academy) are more recognized for our clubhouse and what it offers than what we (The Academy) are really about. People know that the Magic Castle is a clubhouse of a group of professional and/or seemingly prestigious magicians. In fact, it is a clubhouse of magicians. Any other term places levels and spaces betwixt us as members...something I feel shouldn't belong. I digress.
People also know and recognize the Magic Castle as a unique dining and entertainment experience for a "one-of-a-kind" event by which they can go "on the town". Corporate and business people recognize the "Schmooze factor" for taking clients to our exclusive clubhouse for building better business relations...Hollywood's elite and entertainment figures see us as a place to be entertained and seen. None of those are bad things. From each of those sources come income that we, the Academy, need to continue our development and pay for the services rendered by our clubhouse. Still, people (for the most part) recognize all of that as being, THE MAGIC CASTLE. Only a handful recognize the fact that all they enjoy is brought to them by, THE ACADEMY OF MAGICAL ARTS.
To compare this, take the "Oscars". Each year, people watch the televised awarding of that statue to the top names in the motion picture industry. The actual name of the organization that gives those awards, "The Academy Of Motion Pictures Art & Sciences" is so bantered that it is known as the true agency behind the event. Heck, even the show that is televised is known as, "The ACADEMY Awards." That 'Academy' is so recognized that they even don't have to place the rest of their name into the title!
Very few people recognize that, when they come to our clubhouse on Glover Hill, they are going to a function brought to them by, The Academy Of Magical Arts. Admittedly, 'The Magic Castle' is a much catchier phrase and less of a mouthful to cough out each time you say it. We are known more as our clubhouse than as the organization behind the clubhouse. And, we are not a structure of cement, wire, and wood. We are a living, breathing, rearranging, conglomerate of human beings who perform and enjoy - either professionally or otherwise - the variety art/craft of magic. And, no matter where that embodiment goes, no matter what name a future clubhouse will be known under, there we are. (Sorry, couldn't resist the moment of Zen.  ) We are "The Academy", not, "The Magic Castle". We are the people who make the Magic Castle what it is as a professional dining and entertainment experience that gets the name brand of our clubhouse recognized. We are the "inbetweens" that exist between the main images people retain when they visit our clubhouse. You know, the "and there were these folks who were also doing magic in the basement, on little tables, at the bars and were also very entertaining" references when our guests come home with their trip reports. Most of our attending guests don't take the time to realize we are actually their "hosts" while they spend their evening in our clubhouse. Most of our guests don't even realize who we are. And, I find that a sad thing, indeed.
So - the current situation betwixt Glovers/Castle LLC and the Academy is, to me at least, a good one. It is one that stands to remove us from a place that we no longer belong...and to force us into finding a new home for our group and organization...a home that better reflects who we are as an organization and retains the honored history we have developed over the last four generations. It is a well given fact we need better facilities and space for our endeavors as 'The Academy Of Magical Arts'. This could be the moment in time we are finally recognized for the embodiment we are, and, not the name of the clubhouse we inhabit. And that, to me, at least, is exciting.
In truth, however, it is hard to know what the outcome will be. Personally, I think the best solution is the Academy finding a new home. Better space, improved facilities...these are the factors we should focus our energy upon. Let the LLC ring their bell and hear that toll. We have our own route and road. It is time to eagerly begin relocation (if it falls to that) and working on creating a new and improved clubhouse for our organization in the 21st Century. I am a firm believer in the factor that time has come for the Academy to move to a new site, entirely. There are so many great buildings in Hollywood and the ready surroundings that would offer a marvelous site for our organization...buildings seeped in "show biz" history and full of their own stories to tell and interweave with the mythology of our own.
We spend our time speculating whether or not this “great take-over” will transpire, and will the LLC succeed in changing the historic clubhouse and space? When a embodiment of power players embark upon a mission such as this, and, that LLC is definitely well embarked and well endowed with the level of fiscal support they need to achieve their goal, chances are good that they will succeed. Take a look at the lineup of players that has been listed. Then, consider their connections to other major names who have yet to be stated as members of the LLC, but, who just might be there. We then must consider some of the top names currently appearing on the Las Vegas magic circuit...and elsewheres. I fear there will be no real way for our organization to stand up to this.
But, then again, why should we? If this group wants to come in and make the hillside a full entertainment venue of dining, entertainment, and lodgings...a smaller "resort destination", if you will, let them. We (the Academy) were started as a club for magicians. We share our clubhouse with the public - by invitation. We openly invite magicians around the world to join us. We offer the best in what we do as a professional group to performers and hobbyists alike. What we offer and do is not what this new organization wishes to produce. What they seek is another version of a "Ceasar's Magical Empire" on California's coast. And, it would seem that they have the money to do it. All they receive from us is the established audience we have built over the last several decades of guests who have attended events and dinners at our facilities. And, that is a rather major theft article we stand to lose.
Still - let them take the house. Let them have the bare walls and problems the old building offers. Let us move and go elsewhere. It is obvious we are loyal to our organization and our founder. The voices speak for themselves in acknowledging that we could and should build a better facility for our Academy someplace new. The Academy continues. Look (as a strange example) at Madison Square Gardens in New York. It is no longer square (it is now round) and has moved several times since it was first built. Still, it is Madison Square. The spirit it carries has never changed...the home of New York events and spectacles. The Academy has reached a point in our history where we need to expand our facilities and move. This moment in time is one of the greatest gifts we have been put through. No matter where we go, we will still be the Academy of Magical Arts. And, the spirit and soul that has been created and carried over the last few decades will stay with us where ever we move.
I have read much over these pages about concerns with the board and with the landlords and with monetary matters. These are all valid issues. But, they are only spokes that extend from the core reality that rises above all other issues...our organization. The one thing that truly matters in this is not our location, not who does what for whom, but, the Academy of Magical Arts. That is the one thing that deserves our focus and attention. So, if we are faced with manure falling in our proverbial faces then let us take that pile of waste and sow it into the ground and build something better than we ever have had before. It is time for change; let us change with it. Let us leave the manor behind and find an amazing realm in which we shall manifest our wonders into. Milt, I am there with you. Ready to work, to paint, to build, to design...to dream a better horizon than the last several decades could have manifested at all. There is only one thing I don't want to lose. And that is the Academy of Magical Arts. Anything else exists as aspects of the game. As long as the core remains we shall have another day.
I keep on getting back to the same points - the Academy is our focus, not the house or properties on "Glover Hill". Building something new and better that we have not seen before...that is the goal we need to work upon and guide visions toward. In that, we are using our creative forces in ways that profit us all, and not catching ourselves in the spiraling nets of speculation.
And, in fact, that is all anything currently is…speculation. Be it what we see as happening in the next few weeks and days, be it what is reported in an interview (for interviews are given in order to best present only one side of a thing…it takes many interviews with all parties involved to be able to get a clear picture of that which is really happening), whatever curious thought about this we are currently expressing…it is speculation. Not until all the cards are presented on the table and Milt and the representative body of the AMA have come to terms with Castle LLC will any definite knowledge be earned. And, until that point, it is best to hold faith in Milt and what he will work towards.
A final thought. An ancient race once said..."May you live in interesting times..." Well, these are definitely interesting enough for me!
Okay – enough rambling for me. Let’s go out and catch donuts and coffee! 
Kd
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#105845 - 01/29/04 08:15 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Speaking strictly as a member of the AMA, I keep coming back to the same question......If we weren't too big for the Castle when we had 7000 members (and the respective revenue base) how is it that at 4ooo members we have outgrown the Castle and need more space?
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#105846 - 01/29/04 08:24 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Chris Aguilar
Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 824
Loc: Sacramento
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^^^Perhaps the 4000 members are giving out more guest passes these days then in the halcyon days of 7000 members?
Or perhaps a greater percentage of the current 4000 live locally and use more of the clubs resources then when there were 7000 members? Was the number of "non resident" members higher back in the day?
I have no facts to support this, but merely throw it out as a possibility. I could very well be completely wrong here. Do we have hard figures as to the amount of guest passes given out (and used) per year? Do we know whether the percentage of "non resident" memberships has decreased?
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#105848 - 01/29/04 10:12 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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I've been following this discussion with avid interest, as many have. It seems to me that there is really not enough information to make judgements regarding the intention of the Castle Partners, LLC. They clearly feel they can do better, and doing better may involve changes, but whether they are "genuine" in their statements or not is impossible to tell. And that is not necessarily a sign of bad intent. It is impossible to negotiate in a fishbowl, to make proposals, bargain, modify positions, evaluate counterproposals, etc. without undue pressure, if everything is being watched and commented on by everybody. Whether the AMA is doing a good job minding the store is again not the Castle Partners, LLC's responsibility. What I can gather is that the Magic Castle is wearing out as a building, and not bringing in, or almost not bringing in, enough money to support itself. The Castle Partners, LLC feel that with some professional management of the food, etc. this may be reversible. They feel they have the business background to do this. And doing it may involve investing more money, and making some changes, all of which would be hard to do by the AMA, which is really not a business or run like a business.
I do know that running a successful food/beverage/entertainment operation separates the men from the boys. It is very hard to do well, and requires money and very good management. It also would seem that if there was an easy fix, where nothing had to change, then it would have been done by the AMA. So, it would seem to me that some things would need to change to save the club at the present location. The Glovers aparently either want a better return on their investment, which is their right, or want to feel confident that things are stable and improving, not always on the brink of disaster. Given that, and that the AMA & Milt apparently do not have credibility with them in this regard, then there would seem to be little choice but to do something more drastic.
Whether "the cure will be worse than the disease", or acceptable to the members, or better than moving, I don't know. And I don't know if the Castle Partners, LLC are genuine or not. But trying to read intent in the tea leaves we have been given is beyond my powers (and I suspect everyone else's) as a mentalist.
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#105849 - 01/30/04 07:53 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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John Clarkson
Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Cathedral City, CA
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The Glovers have the right to sell the property or lease it to whomever they wish. The new owners or lessees, clearly, have the right to lease or sublease The Castle to the AMA. Moreover, as the new landlords, they will the power to negotiate for new terms to the lease agreement. From a business and legal standpoint, of course, there is nothing wrong or unusual about this.
I am not willing to presume bad intentions on the part of The Castle Partners, LLC. I am even willing, until I see evidence to the contrary, to believe Ms. Zimmerman when she says, "Castle Partners is not planning to fire the staff or do anything but improve the club, and we would like Milt Larsen to continue to be part of the Magic Castle, building and innovating as he has always done."
However, as a long-term member of the AMA I am offended by the process. Milt described it as "underhanded." At very best, it doesn't appear especially forthright, and appearance of propriety is often as important as propriety itself.
I voted for members of a Board of Directors to look after the interests of the AMA and The Castle. I don't recall our having elected Ms. Zimmerman or the Castle Partners, LLC to "improve the club." Her comment in the interview with Richard seems just a tad (unintentionally?) patronizing. Let our new landlords put aside their apparent altruism and look after their own best interests while we, the members of the AMA, look after ours. I don't want to be saved from myself by a group of well-intentioned officious interlopers.
My hope, then, is that our current Board of Directors will simply say to The Castle Partners, LLC, "Thanks, but no thanks. We prefer to improve the club by our own initiative and the vote of the membership. We don't want to do it under fire from an outside group, no matter how much it assures us that it has our best interests at heart. If that means the AMA must relocate, then we will."
Perhaps Ms. Zimmerman and friends can, in some vague and distant future, run for election to the Board of Directors of the AMA and exercise power with more apparent, freely given, consent of the membership. In the meantime, as much as I dislike the idea of leaving our present home, perhaps it is, after all, time to start looking for better arrangements.
John Clarkson AMA #R 3299
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#105850 - 01/30/04 08:12 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Tabman
Registered: 03/17/09
Posts: 814
Loc: TC and KOZ at the Funny Bone
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the answer seems obvious. there are at least a half dozen very well-heeled individuals in magic. why cant they get together and buy the property from the owners - make them an offer they cant refuse and then donate it to the AMA. if i was in a position to do that i would do it in a heart-beat. in fact if you want to relocate the castle to rural tennessee i will donate an acre or two of land here on my farm and do the excavating but since thats not a solution to the problem i will just leave now but i can think of several who could probably come up with the cash. good luck to milt and the AMA.
-=tabman
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#105851 - 01/30/04 10:18 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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David Alexander
Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 1404
Loc: Aurora IL
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What some of you think of as a lot of money, is a different thing to people like the Glovers who are truly wealthy. To my understanding, the Glovers were offered a large sum...large to most of you that is...for the site and they turned it down.
This prattle about "making them an offer they can't refuse" is just that, and a clear sign that those who advocate such an approach have never dealt with people who have serious wealth.
Frankly, if the Glover's sole objective was to "make money," all they need to do is knock down the Castle and do a hotel deal. The land, in the heart of Hollywood, would soar past its already high value, but they haven't done that and haven't threatened to do it.
I would have thought the careful and reasoned response from Diana Zimmerman would have shut off most, if not all of the nonsense bandied about on this thread. Amazingly, it didn't.
Apparently, everyone has an opinion, even people who have no clue what they're talking about...and even those who pretend to are, in my view, more motivated by the loss of job referrals than by altruism.
Things will be coming to light over the next few weeks and there will be, or should be, a lot of red faces when the wash is finally hung out to dry. Until then I would suggest people just shut up and wait to see what happens.
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#105852 - 01/30/04 11:27 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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To Chris Aguilar:
Thank you for helping me make a point. In over 6 years on the Castle marketing committee, most recently as chair person, We learned that although the Castle has been through numerous computer & software conversions, there is virtually no hard information available. And if it is available is is out of date.
We (the marketing committee) have spent years asking the BOD and management for any stats that would help us market our club to members and guests............it was not forthcoming.
If you want to know what it means to "Bring the Castle into today", this is a prime example.
No organization with a fiduciary responsibility to its members can operate in good faith in today's business climate without the ability to capture vital information to be used in evaluating and implementing changes necessary to not only survive but thrive.
You have clearly indicated in your post that you understand the relationship between information/statistics and success.
I have spoken to numerous "newbee" board members who won a seat only to learn that 1 or 2 new board members can not effect changes even with the best blend of expertise and good intentions. Read some of John Scanlan's posts back in the early stages of the nominations for BOD seats. None of those "newbees" stayed on the board.
I have spent 7 years trying to improve issues related to marketing and membership from the inside. What did it get me????? A prestigious "Award of Merit" from the AMA and the respect of my fellow mwmbers that has been so freely displayed on these forums.
Whether or not you believe in Castle Partners intentions to save the Castle makes no difference at this time. Personally, if I felt the AMA was operating at 50% of the effectiveness of the average business, I would not hesitate supporting a move. From my perception, being on the inside, they are not. Prior to January 8, 2004 virtually all the posts on the Castle forum were about problems with management, reservations, quality of food, service, entertainment, and even complaints of areas of the building that smell bad.
Very few complaints were about problems with the building, they were problems that people (AMA) were unwilling or unable to fix.
In my opinion, if Milt and the AMA choose to move, and if the AMA survives that move, virtually all of the problems documented on the Forums will move with them and they will have one new one. The new one will be the huge new financial burden inflicted on all of the members by those few people who made an emotional decision while completely disregarding all logical aspects and their fiduciary responsibilities.
For the record, these are my opinions as an AMA member that has donated well over 1000 hours to trying to improve your Magic Castle and I have felt this way for a very long time.
I wish I knew who said it, but something that I have remembered for a long time is this: "you can't solve problems by using the same mentality that created them."
New location, old location, new problems, old problems....same mentality. This is something that you may want, but I don't want any part of it any more.
Michael Flint
AMA member M11061
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#105853 - 01/30/04 11:49 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Now that is a response I can respect. I felt the soft, no changes are expected, everyone is wonderful, responses were not sincere. You make it clear that you don't like how the place is run, are tired of the people doing it, and want to make the changes you think are needed. Nothing wrong with that feeling and it is more honest. Again, I hope it works out for everyone.
Steve V
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#105855 - 01/30/04 12:47 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Mr. Flint,
Seeing how it appears that you're the main "public" representative for CP, LLC, I'm glad to see that you're finally opening up and communicating some of your ideas and feelings on things. I feel that this is a much better approach than answering a question with a question or dodging reasonable questions altogether, which is personally what I've felt like was taking place here and on the MC forum.
There is no doubt that there are things that need improvement at the Castle. I think that you pointed out a couple things that should be investigated further. However, from what I've experienced so far, most AMA members would rather have Milt Larsen remain the captain of the ship and steer us through the job of making improvements, rather than having a hostile takeover.
Finally, I firmly believe that the root of most problems, including the ones you mentioned, currently faced are a lack of space and the need for a newer structure.
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#105856 - 01/30/04 12:49 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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On a related note, Dustin, Einstein also said "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
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#105857 - 01/30/04 12:53 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Chris Aguilar
Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 824
Loc: Sacramento
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Mr. Flint
Thank you for the measured and thoughtful response. You bring up some very (IMHO) relevant points.
_________________________________________________________
www.conjurenation.com - 'Cards Only Forums'
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#105858 - 01/30/04 01:49 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Jon Racherbaumer
Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 713
Loc: New Orleans
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Forums feed on Festivals of Speculation. Bedrock facts do not permit much “wiggle room” for the imagination to soar to heights where oxygen-deprived speculators' utterances become prattle.
However, prattle and babble is often fun to read and hear. It’s like gossip and barroom talk. Occasionally, if one listens closely, glimmers of “reality” can be seen and heard.
What has ostensibly happened atop the Hollywood hill —to use my latest, favorite term—is a force majeure.
Most cynics I know say, “Follow the money…”
Bettors say, “Back the bucks or play the odds…”
Traditionalists say, “I must follow my heart…”
Rationalists say, “You cannot reason someone out of something he has not been reasoned into…
Sportsmen say, “May the best man (side) win…”
Visionaries say, “Look to the future…”
I say, “I’m going to take David Alexander’s suggestion. I’m going to shut up and wait for the smoke to clear.”
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#105859 - 01/30/04 03:44 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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John Carney
Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 122
Loc: Los Angeles
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First I want to correct a misconception that some might have. Many people think that I hate the Magic Castle. Nothing could be further from the truth. I LOVE THE MAGIC CASTLE! Severing my ties with the Castle over a year ago was not an easy decision for me to make. It felt to me like losing a limb.
However, I have been deeply offended by the arrogance, selfishness and thinly veiled distain some board members hold for the members and performers. Their poor judgment has lost us over 3000 members in the years since Bill died. I also watched as several board members exploited their positions for their own personal agendas, power or profit, to the detriment of the Castle and its members.
The Castle was built on people. The Larsens made it a friendly place where you were always welcome. The more fun and the more personable the place became, the more the numbers went up. With the current board’s attitudes and policies, these things were slowly drained away, and the numbers and revenue went down. You cannot run a business like this, like an impersonal, “bottom line” financial institution without a soul. This is penny wise and pound foolish.
If we had not lost thousands of members, they would still be paying dues and bringing in their guests for meals and drinks. These members were driven away, and the board is not interested in the most basic kind of marketing research to find out the reasons why , or in making the necessary corrections that would draw these people back into the club.
The Board’s focus of late has not been on increasing the quality of the Castle experience, but on bringing in non-members on guest cards. This only served to push the members aside and alienate them even more. The key to success in businesses like this is value, and good relations with the members and guests. This Board has appallingly bad people skills.
I am most grateful to Milt, Bill and Irene for creating the Castle and all that they have provided me over the years. I will always cherish my memories and continue to thank them for providing me with many wonderful opportunities and experiences. It is a one of a kind place and it will always hold a special place in my heart.
Milt deserves every nickel he can make from the Castle. Whatever the outcome, I hope it is one that he is happy with. Without him and the Castle, I don’t know where I would be today.
I LOVE THE MAGIC CASTLE!
John Carney
driven
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#105866 - 01/31/04 10:02 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Chris Aguilar
Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 824
Loc: Sacramento
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Should we all "shut up" and cease our "rhetoric" only to wake up one day and find out the events have led to a (potentially) unacceptable fait accompli merely because certain pertinent questions were never asked?
As someone with a serious interest in joining the AMA someday, I personally do not find the expression of thoughtful, pertinent questions or comments to be onerous.
Bravo to Mr. Carney for honestly speaking his mind.
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#105867 - 01/31/04 10:26 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Just for curiosity. Does anyone remember the predecessor of the AMA:
The Academy of Magical Arts and Sciences?
I remember joining that in the early fifties.
Jan 31 10:26
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#105869 - 02/01/04 12:04 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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The Magic Castle has not been losing members. We have, as Pete said, roughly the same number of members we have ever had, roughly 5000. We never had 7000 members, and our membership is very strong.
We have not been losing money either, but instead have just had the best year in our 40 year history.
Our expenses are much higher than ever, and that is largely due to increases in worker's comp, and other business expenses, as well as to the newly raised rent minimum.
The inner workings of the Magic Castle and it's actual income and breakdown of expenses, etc. is all a matter of public record, especially since the Giorgio lawsuit.
I think that the impression that the Castle Partners is coming in to "save" the Magic Castle from anything other than a takeover by the landlords is wrong.
We have met all of the landlord's demands and requirements to the present, and the new lease was still refused. I do not believe that the Castle Partners are coming in to save us from a business failure--there has been none--but actually are simply joining the landlords in their attempted business takeover of the interests of both Milt and the AMA.
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#105870 - 02/01/04 02:57 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Whit makes some very good points. In reflecting over all the information in this thread, I find myself asking what exactly CP & the Glovers want, and what their goals are. We have heard second hand that money is not the issue for the Glovers, and from Whit, that the Castle is making its rent. So I'm at a loss to understand what the Glovers want, if it is not control over the enterprise. That is, their goal is to turn the Magic Castle into an entertainment business, i.e. the "hostile takeover". This may not be true, but given the information available, its hard for me to draw any other conclusion other than that. Similarly with CP. IF the AMA/Magic Castle do not need rescuing, what is the aim of CP?
The Magic Castle/Milt & AMA, as I understand it, is first and foremost a club for magicians, with the public entertainments, public access to the restaurant, etc. only a method of funding the club's expenses, and providing perhaps opportunities for magicians to showcase their skills to real audiences. The goal has never been to have the Magic Castle be a branded entertainment franchise whose first goal is to make money and gain fame.
Some have argued that that public aspects of the Magic Castle and the food/beverages portion is not managed professionally enough to maximize the earnings. However, if the AMA/Magic Castle is meeting the needs of its members, and is funding itself, what is broken that the Glovers and the CP feel must be fixed?
Many clubs reside in rented premises with various limitations imposed by landlords - times they cannot have parties, noise/attendance/hours limitations, rents, etc. This is normal. I do not know what the issues were with the Glovers and Milt/AMA in the recent negotiations, and they may have felt that Milt/AMA was not responsive to some typical types of landlord concerns, or perhaps was simply too disorganzied to spend the time negotiating with. But absent any real information regarding the Glover's concerns other than what has been said second-hand on this thread, its hard to understand why if money is not an issue, and the Magic Castle has been able to meet its rent, they don't want to continue what has worked so well in the past.
Similarly for Castle Partners - they could be white knights. For example, if the Glovers found MIlt/AMA too difficult to deal with, then CP steps in as a group with the right "business background" to make the Glovers feel comfortable. But in that case, everything is simple. CP then immediately subleases to Milt/AMA, and serves as a buffer between the Glovers and the Magic Castle. But that is also evidently not the case.
It has been made clear that changes need to be made. But on re-reading the thread, it is not clear to me why, since apparently the Castle has been meeting its financial obligations. While members might want larger quarters, less of a crush on weekends, etc. surely that is something that the AMA and its members need to decide how to address, not some third-party group?
Am I missing something here? What is the real issue? What is it that is broken, and must be fixed that Milt/AMA cannot handle?
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#105871 - 02/01/04 04:04 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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David Alexander
Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 1404
Loc: Aurora IL
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It comes down to this...The Academy has a board of directors to whom the responsility falls to make decisions about how the Academy is run.
Negotiations are being conducted between the appropriate parties who are, one presumes, far better informed that most of the people posting on this forum.
No one here has any "right" to "demand answers" from any of the people involved in Castle Partners. Castle Partners must negotiate with and answer the questions of the Board of Directors, duly elected by the membership. Perhaps they will reach an agreement. Perhaps not, but that's how it works and all the sound and fury whipped up here signifies little to nothing except to whip up more blather.
If you are a member of the Academy, then the appropriate place from which to get, presumably, accurate information is from your board of directors as it is their legal responsibility to give it to you.
It is amazing how little attention to evidence and logic has been demonstrated on this thread, from people who, one would think, ought to know better. Let's stop the hysteria, speculation, and endless prattle and simply wait until the facts are finally presented. Only then will we be able to form a rational opinion.
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#105872 - 02/01/04 04:16 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Brad Jeffers
Registered: 04/11/08
Posts: 219
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I'm rather enjoying the blather and prattle. 
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#105873 - 02/01/04 04:28 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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David Alexander
Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 1404
Loc: Aurora IL
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Well, by doggies, Brad....I guess it don't take much to keep you Georgia boys entertained.
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#105874 - 02/01/04 04:42 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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I'm **not** a member (yet) but hope to be if a castle still remains for the better. However, I've been to the castle just about every week for the last few months and from what I've heard (and this is not even being a member) that any change from the current structure is a good one.
Castle Partners or not, the castle seems to me slow, run down (clearly most of the gags hardly work I was disappointed) The place needs a face lift and the politics... ugg.
I also don't like how people are being past over for shows, from what I hear it's very political and makes no sense to me at all. Every magician I met at the castle (and I'm just feeling the place out) told me something along the lines of "this place isn’t what it use to be" From what I've heard from long time members, there use to be magicians running around like crazy in the halls, you couldn’t turn the corner without seeing someone great and original.. What happened to this place, the class, the power of it, and the prestige?!?
I longed to be a member of such a place. It is my Disneyland... How sad it would be if the place moved or if the old farts that run the place drive it into the ground just for spite or because they can't see beyond there boney clutches. If they really cared about the castle then it wouldn’t be in the situation they're in now. I'm not even a member and from all of the things I’ve heard from long time members about the miss-use of funds and wastes of cash, millions of dollars gone, people ousted , it makes me not want to be apart of such a place, very greedy and backstabbing this place.
In fact it's been a real downer to hear magicians talk about the state of things and whose to blame (AND YOU CAN BLAIM SOMEONE)
But these things are always spoken of with a hushed tone just before looking around the corner for others not to hear...
I hear these horror stories about steal of funds and misuse of funds and poor management from so many sources spoken to me a nonmember like myself so often, that these things must be true. Even if they're not, what a shame that this sort of black cloud is common gossip true or not.
Shame on the BOD, Shame on the AMA. If the Castle Partners come in and make it a profitable place, great whats wrong with that? Nail the old farts to the wall, seems like a lot of people wanted that from my simple surveying of the place! Saying things like "the mansion is just a building with walls" is simply foolish talk. That’s like saying the Whitehouse is where ever president knucklehead lives! The location has a spirit and the public knows its location.
If they tried to tear it down I'd be the first Magician to handcuff myself to the door (how ironic that'd be, what a spectacle!) Yes return it to the glory I've come to know.
Change is good :whack:
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#105876 - 02/01/04 06:01 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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If the AMA is not meeting its members needs, that's for the members to sort out. Any club will have lots of politics, and sometimes cronyism or mismanagement. But the point is, its the members' club, and they're the ones, and the only ones, who can and should, with their votes, make changes in the AMA. Or not, as they choose. I can't understand Fierce's comment "Shame on the BOD, Shame on the AMA. If the Castle Partners come in and make it a profitable place, great whats wrong with that?". The Magic Castle isn't there to be a profitable place. The Magic Castle does not belong to the CP or the Glovers. Its not business enterpise that is for sale. Its a club and Milt's creation. Its not there to make money beyond a certain amount - its there to be a club for magicians, and run & owned by the club in collaboration with Milt. Fierce is welcome to join and lobby for change, or run for office to effect change if he wishes. And perhaps his changes would be for the better. BuT it is Milt & the AMA who should decide, and they are responsible, at least for the AMA, to the club members.
As for David Alexander's desire that we not speculate and discuss - Golly Gee, you don't want us to have any fun. What is wrong with discussing in a reasonable way among ourselves what is going on, based on what people choose to tell us. We are all concerned and interested. I don't see the harm in the discussion, myself.
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#105877 - 02/01/04 06:16 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Setting any and all issues of the Magic Castle/AMA - Castle LLC manuevering aside...
It is starting to look like people are wanting to grab whatever skeleton from the closet they may know of, might have heard about, and/or otherwise, and rattle it loudly to bring forward their own view of problems within the structure of the AMA/Magic Castle.
These are the actions that will define how people view the Academy and the clubhouse; people who might have been thinking about being members and are now so turned off that they will never want to join the AMA. There are posts herein that are underlined with statements pointing to a decrepit organization and operation...statements that have been replied to with honest answers from the AMA organization as to our current financial status and operation...yet, those are over shadowed by those voices chosing to rail about what is apparently wrong within the AMA clubhouse walls and organization.
I challenge you, the voices who are pointing out the problems with BOD, physical problems in the clubhouse, membership problems, otherwise...if you are not currently members of the AMA, take this opportunity to join and get involved in the organization to help effect the positive growth and change you are desiring. If you are currently a member of the AMA and have walked away from the group, return. Stand strong and be vocal inside the organization and work for change from inside. If the structure needs redevelopment, only you who are there have the power to turn that tide. If you are a member of the AMA and see problems and haven't left, get involved and let us work together to change them.
All magicians everywhere owe something to the AMA organization...whether an individual decides to join the organization or not. The AMA deserves the support of the members of our craft/art - professional and layperson alike. The AMA is growing, changing, and rearranging. And, the AMA will carry a large portion of the future of magic on their shoulders. We need to support them now moreso than ever in these rocky and turbulent times.
Work together to build the AMA up...not to spread the words and rumors that will further tear it down and grant the ammunition to an organization such as CASTLE LLC to load up their chambers with.
Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Kym Diamond
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#105879 - 02/01/04 09:04 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Here's the thing... you say that the castle is not set up to be a business.. If not then close the restaurant. You say it's not out to make money beyond a certain point? Then there would be a simple renewal of a lease if that's all that it's about because it's not about money, because the castle has it right?
You say it's not about profit beyond a certain amount? Then shut down the bars (the only profitable part of the castle) or offer all of that for free because that money doesn't seem to go back into the improvements of the building which seem to be the only thing the Glovers wanted for the castle (and it never happened) , not spend 1,500 dollar free dinners that are comps to the castle.
I had the luxury of reading the code of ethics members receive when they become members and from that it sounds like a wonderful place to be. It has honor to it, I'd be proud to be a part of that dream.
However, all of the times that I've gone to the castle of late, there is sadness in there hearts when I ask them what's going on, it's not the crown Jewel I was expecting, it's like Disney died or something. The place is not what it use to be, they say.
What John Carney wrote was what i heard from many MANY members... in fact all of the ones I've met. Are these lies? I think not. As my dad use to say, if someone calls you a jackass you're not one, but if many call you one, get a saddle.
All I hear is bitterness, nothing good (NOTHING) I'd love to become a member and change things, and have a vote on it, Great! But from what I hear, my vote wouldn't count as I no doubt hear that the BOD's are keeping all of you in the dark over this situation and this thread makes it even more clear (rather unclear as to whats going to happen) Should'nt you be a part of those meeting, have access to the minutes in those meeting?
I fear that this Mexican standoff will result in me paying for something that won't be there in the next few weeks. It is only until I came to this site that I heard anyone defending the BOD and I can't understand why when so many people sound happy for a change of leadership. So why isn't that talked about here... Oh I forgot... this is a public forum. Right...these things need to be talking about to non-member **strangers** so that you don't go against the grain and get kicked out of the club.
It's more then a building, to me, a non-member, it's a piece of history, something that goes beyond just the members who go there. If you moved the building it would be sudden death for it, I'd never go just for spite because of the reasons it had to move. It's be like moving the Hollywood sign to Burbank, pointless. It is a beacon for me and actually the only reason why I started up magic again, to be in that place where many magicians have grown and call there birth place. It'd be like destroying your home town.
When I say Shame on the BOD's I mean, here I am, and outsider and now I have this view of the place, is this how the BOD want it to be viewed by newcommers? I got this view from Vet members, and new members, people that have done magic for 30 years and guys like me that have only practices for one year... These views **would'nt** be coming about and this thread would be so long if the members were clued in and clearly a part of the process with there concerns address by there leaders (if they're even listening) But I hear the same things mentioned over and over agian... the same things.
I'll join some day, if there is something to join. Heres to hoping the dust clears and honor and respect returns soon. It's certainly hard to trust what eveyone says on the subject and that is a problem in itself.
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#105880 - 02/01/04 10:36 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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FIERCE DID WRITE:
It is only until I came to this site that I heard anyone defending the BOD and I can't understand why when so many people sound happy for a change of leadership. So why isn't that talked about here... Oh I forgot... this is a public forum. Right...these things need to be talking about to non-member **strangers** so that you don't go against the grain and get kicked out of the club.
REPLY 1 -
Fierce - the point now is to bring matters together and work together rather than at odds, no matter what problem the board may present, no matter what has happened. There is a serious matter that overshadows all others just now, and, that is the article that must be worked with and upon until the dust has settled.
Beyond that, the best hope is for a new location...a factor that has been discussed here by several people in this chain of the forums.
On dealing with a change of leadership - if that is needed, and I am not making a statement one way or the other upon that at this point - only by becoming involved and willing to take the risk of entering the game can it be played and changed. Rather than "take a ball and go home", get back in and kick serious butt...if you have to. Enough rusty hinges get the work done. But, until the difference between the AMA, the folks who own the hill, and Castle LLC are worked out...those other matters must be sat aside for the immediate time. This is a point when the AMA and supporters of the AMA must stand together as a solid front.
FIERCE CONTINUES:
It's more then a building, to me, a non-member, it's a piece of history, something that goes beyond just the members who go there. If you moved the building it would be sudden death for it, I'd never go just for spite because of the reasons it had to move. It's be like moving the Hollywood sign to Burbank, poitless. It is a beacon for me and actually the only reason why I started up magic again, to be in that place where many magaicians have grown.
REPLY # 2:
Yes, the AMA goes beyond the members who go there. It goes all the way back when Bill Larsen and others got together and talked and practiced and worked and relaxed with their industry. From that the first organization grew...and then came the clubhouse known as the "Magic Castle." The manor on "Glover Hill" is not the Academy of Magical Arts. That old house of wood, cement, and wires is only a clubhouse that is old, too small, and too outdated for the needs of the AMA as it enters the 21st Century. The beacon should not be the physical structure that is used to house the spirit that is the AMA, the beacon should be the AMA, period.
To note, there are countless historic buildings in Hollywood that are steeped in the traditions and history of variety and film entertainment that offer five to six times the space the current antiquated structure allows the AMA. These are facilities that offer far superior dining capacity and event capabilities. Our numbers as members have grown. We need to support those numbers in ways that acknowledge that growth and permit all members to enjoy the facilities without the crowding and seating issues that currently plague the Manor on heavy traffic nights. The excitement at being able to build this vision (the clubhouse of the AMA) anew based upon that which went before is astounding...chances like this rarely come in a lifetime for members of this organization to be a part of.
FIERCE CONTINUES:
When I say Shame on the BOD's I mean, here I am, and outsider and now I have this view of the place, is this how the BOD want it to be viewed by newcommers? I got this view from Vet members, and new members, people that have done magic for 30 years and guys like me that have only practices for one year... These views **would'nt** be coming about and this thread would be so long if the members were clued in and clearly a part of the process with there concerns address by there leaders (if they're even listening)
REPLY 3:
Yes, there are problems. I heard the same rattling of bones and chains before I joined the AMA 6 years ago. HOWEVER...I took the time to weigh the positive and the negative, and, knew that change can only happen from within. And, believe it or not, more members are "clued in" (as you put it) than you might know.
It doesn't matter how the BOD wants things to be viewed. It matters how the members want themselves to be viewed. As a group, and, as individuals. It is the individuals who make up all the factors of a group, not a select handful who think they govern a group. And, it is the individuals who need to come back and/or take the time to truly involve themselves in the actions that can effect change from within.
I want the AMA to be viewed positively. So, I tell folks of the positive things that can be gained from membership. Access to one of the greatest "think-tanks" on magic you could ever desire. The ability to talk and discuss with peers - both lay and professional - in the field we love. Access to one of the best libraries of Magic and related issues around. The ongoing lecture series that are offered to members by the best performers in our field on an almost weekly basis. The ability to sit and study the performances of the working professionals in our field...and not just limited studies, but, 7-8 different artists per week. The chance to develop friendships and working relationships in a professional organization setting that is a relaxed club style atmosphere. That is what I tell folks about the AMA...and why they should join. And, this doesn't even touch upon the Jr. Magician program, the various award presentations we are a part of, the yearly show the AMA assists in producing, the dedication to furthering the art and craft of magic...straight on, Fierce, these are the things that make the AMA what it is...not the problems you so readily want to focus on and see as being the reality. I will not deny the problems being there, but, they are only a part of the full picture. And, that full picture deserves fair play on all scenes.
FIERCE ENDS:
I'll join some day, if there is something to join. Heres to hoping the dust clears and honor and respect returns soon. It's certainly hard to trust what eveyone says on the subject and that is a problem in itself.
FINAL REPLY:
I challenge you to join now. To enter this and be a part of the most exciting moments in the history of the Academy. To walk through the "dust" and be a part of restoring the honor and respect you write so much of. It isn't important that you trust anyone except yourself. In time you find those who are of equal mind and goals as you support. But, only if you take the risk and join. If you don't, then no one will ever know what those results might have been if you added your own unique strength and perspectives to the challenges at hand.
Kym Diamond
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#105881 - 02/01/04 10:43 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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REPLY TO JEFF E.
Je ff - hopefully you are taking the quote you used from my post in context...and not just as a sample to apply towards activities inside the AMA.
Please keep the thought placed into the context it is meant...which is that the posts in this forum are damaging to the structure of the AMA from the point of view of folks who may want to join... to wit:
"It is starting to look like people are wanting to grab whatever skeleton from the closet they may know of, might have heard about, and/or otherwise, and rattle it loudly to bring forward their own view of problems within the structure of the AMA/Magic Castle.
These are the actions that will define how people view the Academy and the clubhouse; people who might have been thinking about being members and are no so turned off that they will never want to join the AMA. (There was the quote you used. ) There are posts herein that are underlined with statements pointing to a decrepit organization and operation...statements that have been replied to with honest answers from the AMA organization as to our current financial status and operation...yet, those are over shadowed by those voices chosing to rail about what is apparently wrong within the AMA clubhouse walls and organization."
My post also held the context that there are positive statements being made on the AMA as well, statements that do not deny that problems do exist, but, that there are things which can be done to over come and resolve those issues...albeit they will take time.
Respects -
Kd
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#105882 - 02/02/04 12:02 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Kym Diamond
You're a good cheerleader, and I appriciate the feedback, I agree everyone should work together and stop with the speculations, It really has put me off joining. A real downer as I was just about ready to get a memberhip this month.
However honestly, if the Castle moved, i would'nt join. What you're saying about the size of the Castle is like saying the mom and pop shop would do better if you had more space, and maybe you're right. Wallmart does really well to.
Having run large projects and seeing the Castles size I never thought it was the space or size of the location that was the problem, in fact your comments remind me of a more important phrase that has exploded in the faces of many who thought they'd outgrown there cozy little spread... "Bigger is not better, better is better"
It's the smallest holes in the city that are the most prized to be a part of. It's the little theaters in Pasadena that out-perform the largers playhouses. They have a charm to them.
I worked in a small little restaurant and they were packed, lines out the door... They later moved down two buildings to a place much larger and could'nt fill the place. People seeing this thought the food must really suck if nobody goes to it and they finally had to close shop It was'nt the same little place they came to love. The size makes it feel like a little place for me (even though I'd be sharing it). Even Still the Castle has many dead nights and cuts it's later performances out for lack of a crowd. I've seen many a dead night when it all closes up around 10
I've never heard of people complaining about the seeting or complaining about not getting there visits worth (outside of seeing a bad performance)
For the record my membership fee is a gift from a friend of mine to me. I'd rather not risk them paying the fee knowing that the Castle has the potential of closing or moving or changing it's memebrship rules. Even if it was on my dollar, I'd hesitate before leaping into this mess. Who knows, maybe these Castle partners will be good for it. No one has given a good reason why it would be a bad idea. All I care about is that it stays at the same location. The location is not the problem.
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#105883 - 02/02/04 05:49 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Bob Walder
Member
Registered: 01/28/08
Posts: 116
Loc: France
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I'd better start with a disclaimer - I am not a member of the AMA, nor have I ever visted the Castle (so "shut the hell up and bugger off" I hear you say!)
OK - I will.... but after I say this:
I have watched this thread with interest for a number of days now and there are a couple of points worth raising by an outsider to those who may be a little too close to the problem:
1. The type of "bickering", in-fighting and "politics" we are seeing here is pretty normal in any club, no matter how large or small. Free and open discussion, and even outright speculation, is to be encouraged. The types of behind-closed-doors "whisperings" of which Fierce speaks are also pretty common in most clubs - usually by those who do not have the balls to get off their arses to do something about those "appalling" conditions and are happy to leave all the real work to someone else, only to moan about it later when things are not exactly to their liking. All part and parcel of the democratic process really...
2. The Magic Castle is undoubtely an attractive venue, and will remain so even if the AMA ups and leaves - I would still probably visit the "Magic Mansion", with its fancy new restaurants and magic-themed evenings, if I was in LA
3. To claim that the Magic Castle IS the AMA and vice versa - which seems to be what Fierce (and some others) is implying - is short sighted in the extreme. The Magic Circle in London moved premises successfully - how much soul searching do you think went into THAT decision? Seems to have been fairly well received after the event, however...
When I mentioned the idea of visiting the Castle on this forum last year I had numerous replies that all warned me to set off in PLENTY of time, especially on certain nights when there was a big game on (football, baseball, basketball? I don't know - we only do REAL football over her (i.e. soccer)). In other words, the traffic and parking seem to be big issues - this does not encourage people to visit.
I have also heard that the place is often overcrowded at weekends and that the theatre facilities are not up to the job - not something I can comment on having never visited, but something that needs to be addressed (if true) if such an important club as the AMA is to thrive and grow.
There have been claims that AMA membership has reduced significantly, and counter claims that it has remained steady at 5000 for some time, never having actually grown to the 7000 previously claimed. I have to ask, why not?
Magic is more popular than ever thanks to the likes of those publicity seekers Blaine and Valentino and their ilk, and so membership should be growing constantly. Every time there is a world cup there is a sudden surge in membership of football organisations over here - whenever Wimbledon is on there is an increase in membership of tennis clubs. Why is the AMA not growing in the same way with all the exposure magic is getting these days?
Actually - please don't try to answer that, because it is a topic in itself. My REAL point is that perhaps ONE reason is that the current infrastructure could not take that kind of growth. A new building might be the first step in achieving it.
These things need to be looked at dispassionately - if the AMA needs to move to contimue to grow and add value to its membership, then so be it. If the owners then want to do something magical with the Castle under its new name, then so be it. Lucky old LA to end up with two such major magic venues.
Carpe diem - this seems to be the best opportunity the AMA will ever have to move. Get stuck in a rut with whomever ends up in control of the current club house and you will probably find yourselves in exactly the same position 10 years from now - and still with only 5000 members....
Just my 0.03 (0.02 at current exchange rates)
Bob Walder
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#105885 - 02/02/04 02:23 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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FIERCE WRITES:
However honestly, if the Castle moved, i would'nt join. What you're saying about the size of the Castle is like saying the mom and pop shop would do better if you had more space, and maybe you're right. Wallmart does really well to.
REPLY 1:
The Castle isn't a "mom and pop" shop or community theatre. The Castle is the Clubhouse - the physical structure - that houses the embodiment of the Academy of Magical Arts - the membership that fills the clubhouse for whatever course of activities they might chose. The membership has outgrown the defined space of the clubhouse. If an organization such as the Masons, the Elks, otherwise - suddenly became too large for their current hall, there would be no problem in that...yes, there might be sadness at loss of familiarity of the old digs, but, the group would need more space. This is the situation we are in ourselves as the AMA. We need more space. We need better facilities. The current clubhouse we are in does not offer these, and, no matter the amount of plussing that can be done to the existing location, it will not fix the problem of needing space. The house is a madhouse on prime evenings and there is little to no room to walk between showrooms and other areas, let alone get into the local water closet for a moment or two.
Guests and members are turned away from seatings on those nights as well. The factors of the seating capacity of the various theatre spaces in the Castle has already been attended to. Even though numbers are black and white, they do not start to reflect the frustration and aggravation of people being turned away from a show on those nights. I have personally seen people lose out on all close-ups (which they should at least get into one of), all Palace shows, and, only make one Parlour show in a Saturday evening. And, if it is a party having dinner, I have seen them struggle for Palace seats scattered amongst the back rows as group batch seating has taken over most of the front half of the theatre. (There are only certain seats in the Palace that offer decent views as it is. The Parlour has the advantage of having seating that is raked upward from the stage for better sight lines.
The space is a real problem. The "stages" are minimal and offer no real depth for performers to work upon. It is amazing to comprehend the acts we do see in the Palace when one is aware of how miniscule that stage actually is!
The charm of the Castle is lost in the sea of humanity guests are forced to waddle through on those nights when operating at maximum capacity. It is, sadly, a traffic jam mess. The solution is, without a doubt, for the Academy to relocate and move. That which is the charm and wonder of our organization will not change or be lost. In fact, with expanded space, it can only adapt and grow.
FIERCE CONTINUES:
"Having run large projects and seeing the Castles size I never thought it was the space or size of the location that was the problem, in fact your comments remind me of a more important phrase that has exploded in the faces of many who thought they'd outgrown there cozy little spread... "Bigger is not better, better is better""
REPLY 2:
Outside of completely building new show rooms and expanding the facility, there is no way in which the current clubhouse can get to a status of "better is better". We have to consider the desires of guests and members and performers and everyone else who is inside those doors every night we are an operating venue. Expanded space and facilities are a major part of the answer that is needed to provide the "Better" door.
FIERCE CONTINUES:
"It's the smallest holes in the city that are the most prized to be a part of. It's the little theaters in Pasadena that out-perform the largers playhouses. They have a charm to them."
REPLY 3:
Again, we do not belong to the mansion. The mansion is not the Academy. It is only a structure we use. Every panel inside of it, every prop, every decoration, belongs to our group. We move, the settings move. (Although it seems to fit that the locales being suggested may have quality atmopshere to start with so our alteration and decoration would have to be less than it was with the Lane house when Milt and Bill first walked in those doors.) The prize is not being a part of an aging victorian house. The prize is being a part of the organization that meets in it. To place the value upon only being in the place that has come to represent the AMA for the last number of years unfairly robs the AMA of the value it richly deserves.
FIERCE GOES ON:
I worked in a small little restaurant and they were packed, lines out the door... They later moved down two buildings to a place much larger and could'nt fill the place. People seeing this thought the food must really suck if nobody goes to it and they finally had to close shop It was'nt the same little place they came to love. The size makes it feel like a little place for me (even though I'd be sharing it).
REPLY 4:
The AMA cannot continue to function in a "little space". We have already filled to capacity and more. New digs with more space for display of artifacts and wonders, larger seating arenas of performance venues, better dining rooms and kitchen facilities...more space for member only arenas (such as a library, classrooms, and otherwise) - it is not trying to "Serve more food" as in the example you used above, but, reaching the expanding needs our organization and the guests we invite to share our clubhouse for an evening require. The need for personal space, manueverability in walking through the structure, increased seating for the shows so members and guests do not have to be turned away...and away...and away...this speaks for itself.
FIERCE:
"Even Still the Castle has many dead nights and cuts it's later performances out for lack of a crowd. I've seen many a dead night when it all closes up around 10"
REPLY 5:
Truth with that. But...how does it feel to be able to walk around the hallways and take it all in...to really soak up the details of what Milt hath wrought for the clubhouse? To look at the beauty and art, as well as being able to enjoy getting into the shows? Take that concept and plug it into a new setting where there is ample space to walk around without being greeted by a nudging elbow or armpit.
And, for each "Dead night" of the week there is, there is also an amply "live night". I've gone middle of the week and been stranded outside of show rooms from a large number of guests who are having a private party on that night...or, even better, the headliner in the Palace is so major that every member really wants to get up that specific week to be able to see that show...sometimes more than once or twice!...This does happen.
FIERCE
"I've never heard of people complaining about the seeting or complaining about not getting there visits worth (outside of seeing a bad performance)"
REPLY:
I have. Several times - especially on the high capacity nights. I have seen guests leave as the house was too crowded for their enjoyment on several occasions. This is a factor that gets back to the expanded need for better space and location.
FIERCE:
"For the record my membership fee is a gift from a friend of mine to me. I'd rather not risk them paying the fee knowing that the Castle has the potential of closing or moving or changing it's memebrship rules. Even if it was on my dollar, I'd hesitate before leaping into this mess. Who knows, maybe these Castle partners will be good for it. No one has given a good reason why it would be a bad idea. All I care about is that it stays at the same location. The location is not the problem."
REPLY:
And, here I must differ from you. Location is the major factor in the problem. The house we are in is TOO SMALL. And, again, I must stress that the location is not the organization. If it is the location you wish to have given to you as a gift membership from your friend, then, you really don't seem to want the Academy Of Magical Arts. You want the clubhouse known as The Magic Castle. This is not to seem harsh in a statement about you. Forgive me if it comes across in that way.
That which is the Castle, effectively, the AMA, is eventually going to have to move into better space...be it today or five years from today. And, the sooner we achieve that relocation goal, the better off our club will be. (Personal opinion, only.) For the AMA to maintain what it currently is and shall grow to be, then, this factor of movement must be addressed. To fall prey to the controlling influence of an outside organization stands to dictate the changes you mention fearing in how we operate our membership.
But, if all you care about is location, then, perhaps, siding with the LLC is best for you. There will be an old house on the side of Glover Hill. And, if the kindness of fate continues to progress in a favorable way, it will not be housing the AMA.
Respectfully yours -
Kym Diamond
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#105886 - 02/02/04 02:28 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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REPLY TO RALPH M:
Ralph, it is best for those who are aware of what locations are currently under consideration not to publicly discuss those or tip Milt's hand in what is trying to be achieved. This is frustrating, I understand. To achieve the best negotiable deal with any of those locations, to avoid further head butting with the CASTLE LLC group, it is best to keep such things as "probable locations" quietly hidden until they become "done deals" and publicly known.
Pete - apologies if I accidentally stepped on your toes there, not meaning to...
The point is to allow Milt and those working with him to handle those negotiations and manuevers of delicate business. Getting the best deal in any situation often means working as quietly as possible to avoid inflation of property costs due to public knowledge of a situation.
Personal thoughts, only.
Kym Diamond
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#105887 - 02/02/04 02:35 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Pete Biro
Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Hollyweird
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#105889 - 02/02/04 02:51 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Pete, re your post: "Kym: I'm no business man/negotiator, but would it not be in Milt's favor to say something like "We have a prime location, the landlord WANTS US and if the LLC folks are in the way, we move."
Whoopise! If that is what my words inferred, I apologize! I know that Milt would NEVER state anything to that effect. And, such was not what I was trying to get at. I think yer answer of someplace between here and Colorado is great. Again, my sincerest apologies if the statement came across misconstrued. The only point I was after was that any location currently under consideration or negotiation shouldn't be public knowledge until all things are done and we are in a situation that dictates the move.
Respectfully -
Kd
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#105890 - 02/02/04 06:15 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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mark
Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Washington State, U.S.
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Fierce,
I just wanted to give you an alternative viewpoint to the 'grand old lady' that is the current Magic Castle. While not a member, I have very much enjoyed my visits - to a point. I know what I am about to present does not represent a majority view or situation, but it is one that would be addressed in a new location. I am a disabled veteran. No not one with a dirty sign on a street corner, but one whose spine has been worked over waaay too many times by Uncle Sam's finest surgeons. I am a chronic pain patient, and I use a cane when my chair is impractical. My visits to the Castle have been marked by a painful trek up the hill from the M.C. hotel. Once inside, I recuperate a bit at the bar until my dinner reservations are called. Then, a painful trek up the stairs. As for the various shows and rooms. I am not able to stand in lines, and I don't really care for the embarrasment of asking for special treatment - I will leave that treatment to the various celebrities that I have seen who are MUCH too important to stand in any lines. With this in mind, I take the next painful walk, this time downstairs where I have been able to enjoy a good show or two. You see, the Magic Castle is a really charming place, and one that I love to visit, but for me the visit comes at a price. I am medicated 24/7, but a visit to the Castle pretty much has me horizontal the day after. Is it worth it? You bet it is, I would do it any time I had the chance (I live in N. CA) A new building would be a much kinder place on this banged up aviator, and I know that there are quite a few older magicians who share my view - who knows, you may too, one day.
Mark
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#105891 - 02/02/04 10:12 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Mark, I understand your situation and there are many places like the Castle that don't require elevators, it's not the best place if you want to relax and enjoy something when the joint pain kicks in, I have the same problem and I'm a young guy. That is the first *good* point I've heard all week.
However, Kym Diamond and those that want to fallow my post...
Let me get this clear, you've all said the AMA has had around 5,000 some odd members and it has'nt changed much over the last decade, as posted by several people. Are you telling me that for the last 40 years and with few changes in membership that you've suddenly outgrown it?
You must be confused with some other club since it has been doing just fine for these past 40 years or am I wrong about it's long standing record. Maybe it's not that the AMA has outgrown the club but rather many of the memebrs who think they need something big and flashy have outgrown the location. Forgive me but I'll keep my old records they sound just fine!
It's people like you Kym Diamond that tear down historical buildings to build parking lots to control what they think is overcrouding.
There was such a building in Seatle's downtown and some bonehead pulled down this beautiful triagular hotel to build a parking lot because he felt that the city had outgrown the street parking. It's the most hidious false looking thing in an otherwise perfect old town. The city complained about how it never fit it so the idiot put arch shaped rails to match the design of the other structures. The location was never the same.
Yes the AMA is separate from the Castle, that's true, but, it's the Castle that I've come to know and love, even with all of it's poor lighting, spacing, sound and levels. In fact it's the many floors of the building that make it a wonderful place to explore and you can see that in the eyes of every new guest.
All that you're trying to do Diamond grease the situation to sound like it would be better if the place closed down. You're setting people up for what *may* be the enevitable change of location. I think you'd be suprised to see how many people want the AMA to remain right were it is. SO I guess yes, I'll be joining the Castle partners if it means the building still remains. In fact I'd help them build it back up if the cardboard facades are taken away and I'd work for free. I just can't forget that (from my guess) 7 out of 10 peoople that go to the Castle each night are non-memebers. For being a clubhouse for magicians, I would have expected a **standing room** of magicians being as packed and "overgrown" as you claim. Sorry, I've never seen it.
-D
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#105894 - 02/03/04 08:05 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Mark Jens,
Thank you for reminding us,what an unappreciative and whiney bunch of complainers, too many of us, who attend The Castle, really are. A much needed perspective, that there are many who would love to go to The Castle, that so many are able to,(unlike you with real challenges) and enjoy the luxury to complain about it.
I have wondered about the access problems that are there. If you use a wheelchair, would they let you go around the entrance, to one of the side doors? Or go around to the back stage entrance, and be on the same floor as the Palace or Parlour? Might be a hassle to open it up for you, but nothing compared to having to manage those stairs.
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#105895 - 02/03/04 08:07 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Fierce, before I can get into this - I fear this is heading towards a flame war situation on your end, I don't want that. Up to this point we have been discussing an issue with two views. It is my hope to keep matters calm and polite on things while we wander through these factors of reality surrounding the space and other related needs of the current manor on Glover Hill. As for your post:
FIERCE:
Let me get this clear, you've all said the AMA has had around 5,000 some odd members and it has'nt changed much over the last decade, as posted by several people. Are you telling me that for the last 40 years and with few changes in membership that you've suddenly outgrown it?
KD:
Actually, the posts have shown that we are growing, and, the guests who visit are growing with it. In fact, you will find (as a rule) more guests than members at the clubhouse facilities on the busiest of nights, which also adds to the over crowding situations.
And, the art of magic and presentations have changed. The stages we use need to reflect that as well. We need more space, space not available at the current site. It isn't that we've "suddenly outgrown" the Clubhouse, this has been coming for some time now...and the factors that are arising this year have brought the matter to a focal point and needed issue.
FIERCE:
You must be confused with some other club since it has been doing just fine for these past 40 years or am I wrong about it's long standing record. Maybe it's not that the AMA has outgrown the club but rather many of the memebrs who think they need something big and flashy have outgrown the location. Forgive me but I'll keep my old records they sound just fine!
KD: No, I don't. And, the last 40 years have had their shares of ups and downs, just as any organization can and will. Believe me, it isn't "big and flashy" that is being looked for. It is something with "space and room" and a "historical setting" that will allow the Academy to proceed into the 21st century with the rich heritage of those last 40 years to build upon in a place that is structurally sounder and better to support the organizations activities and entertainment needs.
FIERCE:
It's people like you Kym Diamond that tear down historical buildings to build parking lots to control what they think is overcrouding.
KD:
On this, you are wrong. I am not saying "Tear the place down", or any place down. I have spent many hours in restoration of historic buildings and/or other such endeavors in my life. Please, don't judge me on that level based upon my statement that the Academy needs to move on from a building that is no longer equipped to handle the numbers or needs of the organization.
FIERCE:
Yes the AMA is separate from the Castle, that's true, but, it's the Castle that I've come to know and love, even with all of it's poor lighting, spacing, sound and levels. In fact it's the many floors of the building that make it a wonderful place to explore and you can see that in the eyes of every new guest.
KD:
And, I fully believe that anything we move on and into will offer the same quality of experience for the guests. That house was an empty shell when the Academy moved in and built it to what it now is. When (and if) the Academy leaves, the house will return to an empty shell for CASTLE LLC to re-invent as they need. The wonders you associate with the AMA's tenure of residence inside that house will be in our new location.
In your statement you say, "It's the Castle I've come to know and love..." well, that is only a house with decorations. You may be emotionally attached to the skeleton, the framework that holds the organization up...but, you aren't seeing the organization itself...the group that built what you love as the shell and interior of a place...and the group that can take all of those wonderful artistic elements and re-instate them, and more, in a better setting for future days.
FIERCE:
All that you're trying to do Diamond grease the situation to sound like it would be better if the place closed down. You're setting people up for what *may* be the enevitable change of location. I think you'd be suprised to see how many people want the AMA to remain right were it is.
KD:
No. I love the set up at the current location of the clubhouse. And, I love old victorian houses. The two go together rather nicely. The extension that runs off the house proper (where the Palace and Parlour reside in what was once a parking garage) are amazing extensions created by Milt and his team. But, there isn't enough space for safe and sane operations when the current facility is at full tilt. And, there are needs in the performance venues that cannot be met unless specific things are changed. Read some of these posts over, read some of Whit's posts over...get a feel for this thing.
Yes, I think it is best for the AMA to find a new residence for our organization. I think there is such potential for expansion and growth that even folk such as yourself would be happy and impressed with the new site of the club's residence. Growth and change can be frightening things...and some folk prefer to hold onto what they perceive as a comfortable moment in time rather than face those frightening factors of change. Whether the move is now, in five years, two years, whatever...it stands to happen. I am ready and waiting for that chance to see our organization grow into something even more than it is now...to see our clubhouse reflect that growth and development...to see our clubhouse being able to offer the space and ammenities needed for the next several generations of performers and guests who walk those hallways, too.
FIERCE:
SO I guess yes, I'll be joining the Castle partners if it means the building still remains. In fact I'd help them build it back up if the cardboard facades are taken away and I'd work for free.
KD:
That's sad. It isn't the building people and members come to see. It is the magic that springs from within...and that is due to the hosts of the Academy of Magical Arts. And that which makes the current manor on the hill magic will be wherever the Academy places its new home. If it is the magical family you are wishing to join on this professional level, the AMA is the organization I would recommend for that. If it is to be able to sit back, enjoy, and just be in an old victorian building, well, there are several historical societys that are there for that. In fact, memberships there are usually low, and, they are always looking for members to help in restoration projects. Make sure you are certain about where you want your energies to go. Are you there for the magic, or, for the house? Important question. The setting easily can change. The spirit and soul that guides a setting will remain. That which you perceive as "The Castle" will always be there, no matter where the Academy goes. What you perceive is what the Academy is, not the old house it uses.
FIERCE:
I just can't forget that (from my guess) 7 out of 10 peoople that go to the Castle each night are non-memebers. For being a clubhouse for magicians, I would have expected a **standing room** of magicians being as packed and "overgrown" as you claim. Sorry, I've never seen it.
KD:
Uh, John Carney had a post a bit earlier about that. (And, sad to tell, we lost John.) The club members have been elbowed out of their clubhouse so greatly that they have retreated to other venues. Having the space to allow club members and guests equal access to the shows and events offers to change that.
For everything you haven't seen, Fierce, I have. And more.
There are many factors happening right now. And, a lot of them aren't just the relocation. There is a lot of serious growth that the Academy is starting to go through this year. Several things will change. And, I am not just referring to a physical location here.
I am standing by the Academy. That is what means something to me. This is going to be a serious year for my organization. I intend to be there for that as I am needed. Even if it is only writing letters such as this, and, supporting whatever form of change that is positive for the growth of this group of amazing individuals I am honored to call myself a part of.
Hope this helps -
Kd
-D
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#105897 - 02/03/04 08:29 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Richard Kaufman
The Chief Genii
Registered: 07/18/01
Posts: 12975
Loc: Washington DC
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I have completed interviews with Tom Glover, Dale Hindman, and Milt Larsen. All interesting, and the situation is not likely to be cleared up even when I eventually post them here.
One thing I can say is that the business about the membership numbers has been causing a lot of confusion. Total membership is now around 5,000. (There is some question as to whether it was larger at one time, but it's just not clear at this point.)
Part of the discrepency is because of the difference between the number of PAYING members and the number of LIFE members. Paying members NOW total around 3600. Life members NOW total around 1400. This gives you the number 5000. However, years ago when the Castle had 5000 members, there were a fewer life members and more paying members.
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#105898 - 02/03/04 08:56 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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KD
I agree that a larger easier to access space is all well and good. I do want to join a macical family. I also think that the REAL issues that are causing this Castle problem are being overlooked and your explantions seem to be setting people up to explain why they won't be at the Castle.
you say "When (and if) the Academy leaves"
so "if" it remains then what you'd be sitting in is a place that you're not happy with.
To be honest, I won't be joining either side until I go find out more solid facts on all of these # claims. It seems everytime someone posts an excuse, there are others that say it's just not true.
I'm looking for facst and so far, all I have seen is the one that was mentioned about access to people who have trouble walking.
I don't want a flame war, but I'm guessing you can see me as an outsider my frustration on the issue.
-D
The jury is out.
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#105901 - 02/03/04 09:34 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Fierce - some good statements here. The most important one in your statement, "I don't want a flame war, but I'm guessing you can see me as an outsider my frustration on the issue. "
Yes, and, thank you for that. I see you as a person who loves this realm of magic performance...and who is concerned for situations within one of the great organizations that embodies the best (and, sometimes the worst) of that. And, believe me, I am just as frustrated as you are over matters. There is not a full picture of what is going on. Even as Richard said above, he now has interviews with Dale and Milt...hopefully those will be out quickly for reading here...the more information that can be placed for public access, the better the lines can be read between and more informed opinions can be drawn. It is only fair that all views be presented and that a logical opinion by the individual reading them be drawn. No one person is right, no one person is wrong.
There are factors that - the more I read of things on this and other related forums - reveal deeper issues and problems within the structure of the governing faculty of the AMA and the embodiment of the members at large, deeper problems with the location we are presently at...and, deeper problems with the performers and guests than we are aware of in what has been given us to decipher over. This is why I stated in my last post that things are just beginning a serious road for the AMA to travel. What we are going through now is only the wake up call.
FIERCE:
I agree that a larger easier to access space is all well and good. I do want to join a macical family. I also think that the REAL issues that are causing this Castle problem are being overlooked and your explantions seem to be setting people up to explain why they won't be at the Castle.
KD: No. There are many levels of factors, I agree. But, this issue of space allocation and needs has been one that has been rising for several years. At least, from what I have gleaned by reading posts and talking with other members, as well as personal observations over the last six years of my own membership. My "explanations" are to help pursue the understanding that we need to move and relocate to better facilities, and, that nothing stands to be lost (Save an old house), and everything stands to be gained. This also admits to a painful transition...the same that happens when a family who has lived in one city for thirty years suddenly has to move for whatever given reason to another location that is new. There are emotional ties involved in any form of relocation move. But, the expectations to grow in new ways that relocation offers far outweigh remaining anchored in the same pool.
FIERCE:
you say "When (and if) the Academy leaves"
so "if" it remains then what you'd be sitting in is a place that you're not happy with.
KD:
If the AMA remains in the current house situation, I will still be pounding the pavement and working with those who feel that we need to expand and move. This is not saying I am happy or unhappy in any location. All it is saying is that I believe our organization has outgrown our current facility and needs to move. I am happy to be a part of the AMA - and sad about that, too...the internal struggles and problems that are coming to the forefront now are matters within our embodiment that must be attended to before the rest of the future can be grown into. Whether the move comes before or after those trials of healing, there does need to be a move. (and, yes, that is my personal opinion, of course. )
FIERCE:
I'm looking for facst and so far, all I have seen is the one that was mentioned about access to people who have trouble walking.
KD:
There have been other matters listed as well in previous posts here. And, as I have said, you are not the only person looking for more information on matters...matters that don't even contend with the physical relocation being advocated in this discussion with you.
Focusing on space limitations, then, it is best to move. Read some of the posts here by Whit and others. There is a lot of information out there on why a relocation is the best thing we can do.
The physical limitations of access - one person mentioned that CASTLE LLC is considering an elevator - have been achieved, in unromantic ways, admittedly - without further loss of functional space in the current setting. Placing an elevator into the current allocated space of the manor will take that much more space out of the manor for members and guests to use. Yes, being able to offer all of our guests the ease of travel around the mansion is an important issue. And, a new location gives us the chance to seriously improve that. With space being a premium in our current setting, such an addition as an elevator would take at least one major area of the current setting into history...whether it be Water Closet or functioning show arena or relaxed sitting venue. (The latter stands in an arena in which there are far too few relaxed sitting venues.)
The other issues of struggle within the AMA I will not discuss here or attend to...those are inclusive to the organization and remain there. Those are our scars to heal, and do not need attention here. It is sad enough to know that those matters are already under scrutinization here and elsewheres by people who do not have full scope of the factors in use. And, that last statement even applies to members of the Academy such as I who now are trying to read everything and figure out where the line really stands.
I am not prone to stating anything about the situation of the take over by CASTLE LLC. The focus I have been sound upon is the needed relocation move; seperation of clubhouse and organization for those who have us confused.
That being said...in direct consideration for the LLC matter at hand...as far as I can make out of this, the LLC wishes to come in and operate food, entertainment, and bar venues...aspects of the AMA clubhouse. In effect, they are taking away the outward functioning arm of the AMA in desiring this move. The first and foremost factor in this is to keep the Academy intact. Any form of loss of Academy control on the operation of our clubhouse is the first major schizm that will eventually splinter the AMA into more than just half. If it comes to the factor that we must move and retain our control on the daily operation of our clubhouse, then, let it come to that. It is better to leave a game with the body whole than having to carry severed limbs from the field.
But, a move in such that situation (to avoid loss of control by the embodiment of the Academy of the Clubhouse we built and dwell in) is only a partial moment. A move such as I am talking on here (as well as Whit and many more qualified others than I) is one in which gives the Academy the space it needs to expand and grow for this new century. In either case, a move is outlined as a functional probability to help resolve issues.
Once matters are safe and resolved from the current state of affairs betwixt CASTLE LLC and the AMA, then, we (the AMA) shall have to turn inwards to our own problems and resolve them. And, the only way to resolve those issues is by having a membership ready to work on those issues. Whether that membership is made up of folk who have been there "since time began" or the latest initiate to pass the interviews and walk through the bookshelf as a member...it doesn't matter. The spirit of wanting to keep the Academy fresh, operating, and vital is what is important.
Now, I will probably raise some eyebrows and take some flack for that last statement. Still - no one should discount the new people just in the door. Sometimes it is the newest person in the door who has the spirit and energy to effect the best change in a system...without having the clouded slate of all issues to waddle through and resolve.
There are ways to become informed, in that situation, without being involved in the siding teams of the issue...okay - that may get confused, too. Hopefully not. I sure wouldn't want it to.
Anyway, that is my current take on this issue. Hope it helps better explain matters to you.
Kd
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#105902 - 02/03/04 10:22 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Mark W. Nelson
Registered: 01/24/08
Posts: 28
Loc: Granada Hills, CA
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Dear All:
It has been my understanding that the idea of an elevator in The Magic Castle was broached to the Glover family by Milt some time ago. After many discussions and the drafting of several different plans, the idea was abandoned.
Milt also tried to interest the Glover family in an expansion which would incorporate a 250-seat full stage-facility theatre to occupy an area which currently holds a portion of the Magic Hotel. It may be that the construction of the Kodak Theatre caused the Glovers to find that plan not financially feasible.
I bring these points up to illustrate that Milt has constantly attempted to revise, expand and renovate The Magic Castle and to attempt to "bring it into today" on many different levels. Unless and until negotiations with Castle Partners, LLC and the Academy are completed, and unless they involve Milt, the Academy will lose the vital creative innovations of one of its founders.
Remember, Milt functioned as the AMA's landlord, and the Glover family was Milt's landlord. Subject to current negotiations, CP LLC will be the AMA's landlord, and the Glover family is CP LLC's landlord. The AMA previously paid rent as a portion of food and beverage income. Again, subject tot he current negotiations, with the AMA no longer controlling food and beverage, Academy dues will be the only way to pay our rent to CP LLC.
Kym's posts have been right on point with respect to this matter. The Castle was never originally set up to be a "profit center" for its owners. The restaurant and bar operations (apart from their obvious purposes in feeding and lubricating magaician members) was to pay the rent for the Academy clubhouse without a regular cash outlay which the members of the Academy could not, at the time, provide. The Glovers, in turn, got a steady flow of income from a property that they did not have to operate or maintain (as Milt and the AMA paid for improvements in the building). For 41 years the partnership between the AMA, Milt and the Glover family functioned perfectly in this capacity.
The Glover family has now decided that the property can generate more income for them, and that it is worth the risk to turn operations, staff and maintenance over to a new tenant. Therefore they have not renewed their lease with Milt. Keeping personal feelings of loyalty aside, the AMA simply now must decide, as an organization, whether or not the arrangement with CP LLC is as valuable to the organization as the arrangement with Milt was. And Milt must decide whether or not maintaining his relationship with the CP LLC and the Glovers is as valuable to him as his relationship with the AMA and the Glovers has proven.
Only they can make these decisions. I support Milt and feel that he deserves the support of the AMA. I also belong to the AMA, and that's an organization of friends and professionals I respect, not a merely a location.
The best that has come from the discussions here and on other forums is that the members of the AMA are suddenly no longer taking their club for granted. That, more than anything else, will push the organization into a stronger period of growth and creativity than we have seen in many a year.
Best always,
Mark W. Nelson
_________________________
Best,
Mark
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#105905 - 02/03/04 04:03 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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Here's a scenario that sounds good:
The AMA moves to a new, larger location. The glover's open "The Magic Mansion" in the same location that the Castle is at now.
Result:
We now have one more place to perform and get paid. I could get used to that!
-DS
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#105906 - 02/03/04 10:27 PM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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As a person who goes to the Castle often, and who has not yet commented (as have many, I think), I finally feel moved to post a few things.
First, I have no relationship to any party.
Second, there is an active negotiation taking place between CP, and Milt & Dale. When anyone posts about not accepting any offer, they are undermining Milt and Dale. Kindly be quiet. Making various threats against the Glovers and CP is both pointless (coming from members of an organization that wrings it's hands about breaking even, against an organization that accounts to the closest million), is coming from people who are not involved in the negotiations, and could generate ill will, for an entity that may be the Castle landlord for another 40 years.
Third, there is no doubt that Milt and family has been the life behind the Castle. However, if one looks at who the greatest supporter of the Castle has been otherwise....it has been the Glover family. When one takes an honest look at the value of the property, and that there has been no (meaningful) raise of rent in 40 years, you can quickly calculate their support in the millions.
If they wanted the property, it's theirs.
If they wanted to develop the site, the bulldozers would be working tonite.
If they wanted a disco, the music would be heard.
Set aside the rhetoric and the fear. Observe what is happening with your own eyes. Has an eviction notice been served? Have articles appeared in the paper? Has any of the AMA or management not been allowed on the property?
No.
None of this particularly makes sense, if the motive is simply money. After all, if money were so easy, why has the AMA been sweating all these months? Occasionally talking about dues assessments? Dipping into the reserves? Pushing for new members? Making arrangements for cut-rate deals for teachers? Sliding people into the club without a members' card, if they pony up?
On the other hand, it is clear that there is great disunity in the AMA. Fairly astonishing allegations of pilfering,"ghost" employees who never work but collect checks, hidden deals and kickbacks....unreal! Additional personal slights that I would not repeat. Amazing. All rumor.
Gradual deterioration of the entertainment focus....acts that are repetetive because no one pays attention to what they are doing. Slights to world class performers, souring them to the place.
I would advocate that in a week that will be featuring Shoot, Tom Ogden, Jeff Ezell, and Fernando Cheops (don't know the other magician), having the place nearly empty on M-Tu-W borders on a criminal act.
I would advocate that when the public *I* talk to continually tells me that they LOVE close-up, time and again, and not using the wildly successful Close-Up Olympics to pack them in, is just foolish.
I would advocate that having a location that millions of people want to go to, but can't, because it's private, and then have the place be in financial trouble, as it sits empty all day long 6 days a week, a block away from one of the great tourist attractions of American, and half the nites of the week, is a clear demonstration of managerial incompetence. Probably well-meaning, but incompetence.
One speaks of the loyal employees. Are you referring to the ones that get no holiday bonuses from their employer, no matter how well that employer does, and foists it off on the patrons? Are you referring to the Nite Managers, who are the heart and soul of the average patrons' experience (I still have people mention Patrick was a highlight of their visit), being summarily demoted to "Hosts"? Are these the employees of many years that get no substantial benefits?
It seems like a change has been what has been discussed for a long time in the Castle forums. It is clear that the AMA has had two year to "straighten out it's act", and has been unable, or unwilling to do so. I don't know how much warning you guys expect. Most of the Board members won't even stoop to discuss issues with AMA members. It's pretty easy to understand they won't listen to the Glovers.
The posturing doesn't help. It doesn't even matter what the Board has wrought. This institution is at risk. There is a fairly easy solution, if ego does not get in the way. However, I'm not optomistic.
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#105908 - 02/04/04 11:33 AM
Re: Attention Magic Castle Members
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Anonymous
Anonymous
Unregistered
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acetwo:
You don't say if you are a member or not. I think that we have every right as members to let our opinions be heard by the people who are negotiating on our behalf.
The current board of directors have always been very approachable, and I have often discussed Castle issues with many of them. Every one of them have always listened carefully, and been willing to discuss these issues intelligently.
I am not surprised by your obvious leaning toward the Castle Partners. You seem to share their feeling that a "successful" Magic Castle is one that is full and "making money" every night of the week. I am not sure that that is the measure of success that most of the members would use.
If members are not able to get into the shows on Mon, Tues, Wed as well as Thur, Fri, and Sat that is not necessarily an improvement.
If we are required to have dinner when we come, or at least a certain number of times a month or year, that is not necessarily an improvement.
The problems we are facing come from unavoidable rising costs, such as worker's comp, other increasing costs, and a higher "minimum" rent.
We have met the demands of the Glovers to increase our income to meet their "minimum."
We have not always listened to the Glovers suggestions on how to run our club, for example, we did not take the Glover's suggestion to fire all the bartenders and wait staff and hire younger ones. However, we did meet the demands that they made regarding a new "minimum" rent. This was not enough. They still did not give us a new lease.
I don't think we should give up any control of our club to our landlord or to outsiders, no matter how much they share our "love" of the Castle. What they love and what we love may not be the same things.
I have always appreciated and valued what the Glovers have done for us, and do not begrudge them making money on their own property.
I just do not want them, or anyone, running my club. They are the landlords. If they want to run the business, they should run for the board of directors.
There are several other larger, more suitable venues for our club in the Hollywood area who would love to have our 5000 member customer base in residence.
I have felt that we needed a new clubhouse for several years, for the many reasons that I have already stated. I think that the time to move is now.
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