One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman

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#168545 - 06/21/08 02:04 AM One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman
Rennie Rennie Registered: 01/23/08 Posts: 478 Loc: San Jose, California	Just received the July issue of Genii and would like to salute our fearless leader, Richard Kaufman for saying what he feels about the "One Trick" DVD's. I strongly agree with him on this subject, the particular DVD he was referring to not only was 1 effect, but did NOT come with the needed gaffs, and it was $30.00. Richard had mentioned you could buy a magic book for $10.00 more and get many, many great effects. Everyone should read this article and not purchase the "One Trick" DVD's, Great Article Richard. I do have to note though, my issue had 6 - 8 pages that were very light and nearly illegible, as if the printers were low on ink. Otherwise some excellent articles. Rennie _________________________ The effect is the important thing, how you achieve is not !!
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#168557 - 06/21/08 09:53 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Rennie]
Richard Kaufman Richard Kaufman The Chief Genii Registered: 07/18/01 Posts: 12212 Loc: Washington DC	Rennie, contact the Genii office and we'll send you a replacement.
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#168562 - 06/21/08 10:32 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Richard Kaufman]
Rennie Rennie Registered: 01/23/08 Posts: 478 Loc: San Jose, California	Originally Posted By: Richard Kaufman Rennie, contact the Genii office and we'll send you a replacement. Richard, Thanks, I do appreciate it. The article about the DVD was really good though and hope more people feel the same. By the way, do you recall you had gotten Room For Doubt by Tony Spina from me and you were very generous with your offer. Thanks agian, Rennie Edited by Rennie (06/21/08 10:33 AM) _________________________ The effect is the important thing, how you achieve is not !!
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#168579 - 06/21/08 03:10 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Rennie]
Richard Kaufman Richard Kaufman The Chief Genii Registered: 07/18/01 Posts: 12212 Loc: Washington DC	I love Room for Doubt!
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#168601 - 06/21/08 07:11 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Richard Kaufman]
Evan Shuster Evan Shuster Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 93 Loc: Seattle	Originally Posted By: Richard Kaufman I love Room for Doubt! Me too! Sadly, my copy of the tape was ruined, and my search for a replacement tape has been unsuccessful. Anyone happen to have one?
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#168607 - 06/21/08 08:28 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Evan Shuster]
Edward Edward Registered: 03/13/08 Posts: 82 Loc: California	Just from reading this thread it sounds like a great article. I do agree with the one trick pony DVD's though. I personally would not by a $30 DVD with one effect in it. This is why I have been putting my efforts into to finding out which books to purchase for card/coin magic. I find them to be of greater value. DVD's that have a variety of effects in them are still worth the price. I also would like to see DVD's that are specific to books, i.e. EATCT, done by the author of said books. I find that to be able to visually see what the effect is supposed to look like is an added value.
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#168612 - 06/21/08 09:43 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Edward]
Cugel Cugel Registered: 01/26/08 Posts: 457 Loc: Overworld	It's not cut and dried. I'd buy a one trick DVD from Levent, because you know you'd get your money's worth. A DVD from some kid...? Different proposition.
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#168633 - 06/22/08 11:01 AM Genii Speaks (July, 08)
Michael Jay Michael Jay Registered: 05/28/08 Posts: 56	Just a quick thank you to Mr. Kaufman for bringing up what I consider to be a big problem with the magic industry today - one trick DVDs. I have been whining about this problematic trend for years now and it feels very good to see that it is finally being addressed by much more important men in this industry than myself. I believe (although, I could be wrong) that it is Paul Harris who no longer writes books, prefering to produce DVDs instead, because the DVDs are easier to make and sell quicker than books. Better money in DVDs. What a shame. Anyway, thank you Mr. Kaufman for addressing this issue. Mike.
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#168640 - 06/22/08 12:24 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Cugel]
Harry Lorayne Harry Lorayne Registered: 01/22/08 Posts: 320 Loc: NY	Just want to throw in my nickel's worth. I've been asked, so many times, over the years, to put, for example, my Card Sharp & The Four Gamblers, Magician VS. Gambler, my Ambitious Card routine, Greatest Card Handler of All, Snap!, and so many others, on DVD - that is, just one routine on a DVD. Been assured that they'd be very successful. Well, perhaps, but I won't do it. Why would I? It'd be rip-off. Those items are in my books among MANY OTHER effects and routines, so that purchasing the book is a MUCH BETTER BUY. And certainly not a rip-off - just the opposite. Okay, that is my nickel's (oksy; my three cents) worth. HARRY LORAYNE. (PS: Of course, the above-mentione, plus over a hundred others, are on DVD - my "Best Ever" 4-volume set - but there are MANY items on each; certainly no one-trick DVDs.)
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#168645 - 06/22/08 02:33 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Harry Lorayne]
David Alexander David Alexander Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 1273 Loc: Aurora IL	A similar argument/criticism/observation happened in the 1930s with Ted Annemann selling a single piece of paper for $1. I believe the counter-argument was that a $1000 bill is printed on a "single piece of paper." I've found some large books to be worthless or nearly worthless and small pamphlets to be worth their weight in gold. There are a lot of factors involved in creating value, the amount of content being one small part.
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#168647 - 06/22/08 02:38 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: David Alexander]
Harry Lorayne Harry Lorayne Registered: 01/22/08 Posts: 320 Loc: NY	That goes without saying. According to the person who's doing the writing/teaching, I guess. HL (I believe the original of Paul Curry's Out Of This World was a couple of mimeographed pages. But that kind of thing was few and far between, more so today,in my opinionl.)
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#168649 - 06/22/08 02:51 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Harry Lorayne]
amp amp Registered: 03/20/08 Posts: 185 Loc: Toledo	Got me thinking. Stars of Magic began with one trick.However, it was done by great thinkers of magic. Do you think the one trick DVD is that they don't think?
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#168652 - 06/22/08 03:33 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: amp]
JordanB JordanB Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 55 Loc: Arlington, TX	As a blanket rule, I wouldn't stop purchasing one trick DVD's. Some of them are horrific...in fact, many of them are horrific. But some are excellent. I'm a friend of Bob White's and I think his DVD's on the Malini Egg Bag, Cups and Balls, Linking Rings and Tissue Paper Tear are some of the best out there. To be fair to Richard though, I don't believe he was talking about DVD's such as Bob's, where the nuances to complex and intricate routines are taught in great detail (though I could be wrong). For example, if Johnny Thompson put out a DVD on just the three ball transposition or egg bag, I would probably buy it. Like many magicians, I base my purchases on a variety of factors including the great reviews in Genii. I know they have an influx of products to review, and a lot of times I appreciate the bad reviews as much (if not more) than the good ones.
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#168661 - 06/22/08 05:17 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: JordanB]
Scott M. Scott M. Registered: 03/13/08 Posts: 64 Loc: NYC	I'm of two minds here. I took a very long hiatus from magic and picked it up again in adulthood. Discovering magic DVDs I picked up one by a well known and prolific creator. There were 30 or so effects on the disk and I currently use none. In fact, there was something about the multitude of effects on the disk that diminished the disk as a whole. On the other hand, Daryl's Ambitious Card DVD, which provides a lot of detail on one routine, is one of my favorites. Last year on impulse I picked up Paul Vigil's "Diplopia," a PDF manuscript teaching one trick (a variation on Paul Cummins' "Tap-a-lac") for $20. I do it all the time, and I file it next to the little manuscripts for "Card Warp," which I bought as a kid for $2 and "Out of this World," which probably cost about $5 back in the '70s. So, in short, for me it's more about the quality and originality of the effect than the quantity of effects on the disk. All of that said, given what's on the market these days, however, I mostly agree with you. I'm perfectly happy to buy a one-trick DVD if it's a complete, nuanced, well-taught, well-credited examination of a trick and various related routines or handlings. If it's just a home-shot 20-minute DVD teaching one trick which is just the creator's clever updating of an old principal, I'll skip it. (And that's what most DVDs on the market are these days.) In general, I am much happier buying books, not because you get so many tricks but because they usually provide more lasting pleasure and are, I think, easier to learn from. But you've put your finger on something that I do think sucks -- one-trick DVDs that rely on gimmicks you have to make yourself. Not too long ago these things would be dealer items, and you'd get the gimmicks ready-made. That ready-made quality is presumably what would justify the price. I don't know the "Color Burn" gaff, but I think it's ridiculous you have to make it yourself. Another recent offender: Daniel Garcia's "Torn Too," which requires not only a card gaff but a gaff deck. For the $30 you should get all that you require to do the trick; as it stands, you have to assemble a bunch of materials and go out and buy the required deck as well. With these kinds of one-trick DVDs you get slickly shot demo performances and video recountings of arts and crafts sessions that would be much more concisely conveyed through printed instructions.
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#168668 - 06/22/08 07:11 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Scott M.]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 419	I find this kind of a conversation very funny. The reason I find it very funny because there are so many sides to this conversation. The question of a one trick DVD and is it worth it? That depends on the DVD - who did it. And what is on it. And it depends on the person that may or may not buy it. Who are they? What are their goals? People do magic for different reasons. Yes there are books and other DVD products out there that have more tricks in them than a DVD with one trick. Some magicians are into collecting secrets so they collect books and DVD's so they can have a lot of secrets. I am not a magician that got into magic to find out or be able to do as many magic tricks as I can collect. My interest in magic is finding good performance material that I can do for an audience. That fits in with the way that I like to perform for an audience. If Jack Pyle were alive today and published his bridge deal on a DVD - and I did not know it. And I wanted to learn it. And if it had all the little bits of business. And I would be able to add his bridge deal to my act. Then in my opinion that DVD with that one trick on it would be worth it. I look at routines like that as if they are golden routines. If my Dad published his rope tie - or his knotted silks or his misers dream - in my opinion that also would be gold. Most of the entertainers I have known over the years looked to find magic that fits in with what they do - so they need magic and use it to earn a living. So if they find a magic trick that pays for itself over time - because they use it in a show - and it holds up to the grind - and the audience likes it. Then - it is worth the money that they "INVESTED" in it. Magicians that do magic for a hobby. They don't need a trick that is audience tested. In my opinion they don't look at magic as if it is an investment that they must earn back what the trick cost them - by using it in a show. They seem to want to know as many tricks as they can. So in my opinion they look for magic products to give them a lot of bang for the buck. So to answer the question that no one asked me. Are some one trick DVD's worth it? Yes - sometimes. And No - sometimes. Because as I said in my opinion it depends on what is on the DVD and who is getting it. And for what reason. To use in his act and it is an investment? Or to add to his collection. Just my opinion! Edited by Glenn Bishop (06/22/08 07:12 PM) _________________________ Bish The Magish
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#168680 - 06/22/08 10:50 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Harry Lorayne]
Rennie Rennie Registered: 01/23/08 Posts: 478 Loc: San Jose, California	Originally Posted By: Harry Lorayne That goes without saying. According to the person who's doing the writing/teaching, I guess. HL (I believe the original of Paul Curry's Out Of This World was a couple of mimeographed pages. But that kind of thing was few and far between, more so today,in my opinionl.) Harry, You are correct about the pages for Out of This World, however I recall seeing it listed for many years in various catalogs at a price of $1.00. Even with inflation I do not believe it could sell on a DVD for $30.00 today, though it is a classic. Just my opinion. Rennie Edited by Rennie (06/22/08 10:50 PM) _________________________ The effect is the important thing, how you achieve is not !!
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#168684 - 06/22/08 11:34 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Roger M. Roger M. Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 278	Originally Posted By: Glenn Bishop If Jack Pyle were alive today and published his bridge deal on a DVD Can you imagine if Jack had ANY amount of work on video? I'd pretty much pay whatever the asking price was, one trick or not. Jack teaching his bridge deal.......one of the GREAT "formal" close up routines I've ever seen........I'm in. ........BUT, most DVD's today sadly aren't by the likes of Jack Pyle, and I think Richard's article is dead on the money. I'd feel exactly the same way I do about about Jack Pyle to be able to watch Harry teach "Out of This Universe"........so it appears if taught by one of the Masters, a "one trick" DVD might take on a different light. Edited by Roger M. (06/22/08 11:39 PM)
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#168705 - 06/23/08 08:13 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Roger M.]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 419	I knew Jack Pyle Quite well. He was one of the first magicians that I ever saw do card sharp magic. He like most magicians of his time - did not lecture on magic. He performed magic shows for a living and did not lecture to magic groups. Jack Pyle also came and went before the big video DVD age hit magic. My Dad the late Billy Bishop was against publishing his tricks because in his opinion more magicians would do them. He did not publish his stuff - but that did not stop magicians from doing his stuff anyway. To me it has nothing to do with the "masters" and if "they did" a one trick DVD. It has to do with "content". Is the content worth the price of the investment? To me that is the question when I buy magic. One trick on a DVD or not. Just my opinion. Edited by Glenn Bishop (06/23/08 08:14 AM) _________________________ Bish The Magish
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#168752 - 06/23/08 06:07 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Roger M. Roger M. Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 278	Originally Posted By: Glenn Bishop To me it has nothing to do with the "masters" and if "they did" a one trick DVD. Although we're both fans of Jack Pyle, in your quote above we will have to diverge in opinion. For me, it has everything to do with it.
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#168764 - 06/23/08 07:11 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Roger M.]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 419	OK by me Roger M. If you would only buy a one trick DVD if it were done by some magic "master". And my opinion of what a "master" in magic is most likely very different as well. From where I come from the "master's" of magic were "all" performers! Few performers published what they did to put food on the table. Good performance material is hard to find and in my opinion - most of the time - worth the money because the performer will earn back the investment by doing shows. Not in the case of the magician that does it as a hobby - who will sell part of his collection after they get tired of it - to buy more magic that might be sold at a future time. Just my opinion. _________________________ Bish The Magish
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#168788 - 06/23/08 11:13 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Glenn Bishop]
John Cox John Cox Member Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 7 Loc: Reston VA	I think that most one trick DVD's I have seen are not worth it. Heck I think that a lot of the 8 trick DVD's are overpriced too. Especially the way they package them. Being a coin magic man I would rather get all the coin tricks on one DVD and skip most of the card stuff. But...one DVD that taught one trick that I thought was fantastic was Warp One. That was worth being on a DVD by itself. Another was Chris Capeharts linking Rings. So, I agree that there are times when it may be worth it but most of the time I say no. _________________________ Keep it visual
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#168984 - 06/25/08 04:27 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Harry Lorayne]
Brandon Hall Brandon Hall Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 138 Loc: North Hollywood, CA	Every once in a while a "one trick DVD" comes out that is really worth it...the key is to wait out the initial hype. In one case people had talked so much about the effect, that eventually I figured out the handling and felt I HAD to purchase it out of guilt (Prohibition). For the most part, I think we're preaching to the choir with this thread. Someone should start a thread like this over at the "other" place. Edited by Brandon Hall (06/25/08 04:27 PM) _________________________ "Hope I Die Before I Get Old" P. Townshend
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#169065 - 06/26/08 10:35 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Brandon Hall]
Adrian Kuiper Adrian Kuiper Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 301 Loc: Port Richey,FL	Folks over at the "other" place are too busy creating their one-trick DVD's. Adrian
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#169523 - 07/01/08 05:55 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Adrian Kuiper]
Scott Fridinger Scott Fridinger Registered: 03/16/08 Posts: 223	I don't think that there is a cut and dry answer to this. I have some books which I do not like, there is a great deal of stuff, but it taught nothing new. I have a few DVD's with many effects, which were not good. I have some one effect DVD's which I love. What about a packet trick that comes with DVD instructions vs. written? Is this a one trick DVD? How is a one trick DVD any different than any other single item effect with written instructions, especially if the gaff or needed props is included? There is a bunch of junk being release and there is some really good items as well. I don't think there is a clear line that can be made with a simple statement of 1 Trick DVD Bad, Books good. How much do we pay for an effect we use and works well for us? If I spend $40 on a book and only get one usable piece of magic how is that any different? I agree with what others have said, it is the content as well as the intent and extra material that may be included.
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#169599 - 07/02/08 03:39 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Scott Fridinger]
Geoff Weber Geoff Weber Registered: 07/02/08 Posts: 20	I prefer to evaluate each product on its own individual merits. If it is a good trick and I am willing to pay the price they ask, then I will do so.
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#169732 - 07/04/08 01:51 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Geoff Weber]
Alton Alton Registered: 04/23/08 Posts: 20	I have one of John Bannon's one trick dvd's (Royal Scam) and it just goes to show that you can indeed 1. produce a nice dvd 2. include all gaffs for said routine 3. also take the time to include a .pdf of the routine. All this for $15. Of course I don't know the profit margin on said dvd's. As far as the Daryl 3 Card Monte and Ambitious Card dvd's go, you get so much information that they merit the price for them because of the depth he goes into on each. Man at the moves he provides for the Ambitious Card routine. One thing I have noticed over the years is that most everyone is so eager to "have something published". Regardless of being time tested under performance conditions. AT
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#169752 - 07/04/08 08:50 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Alton]
Richard Kaufman Richard Kaufman The Chief Genii Registered: 07/18/01 Posts: 12212 Loc: Washington DC	Sorry, Alton, but I think that's just baloney. I'd rather pay $5 or $7.50 for the trick with printed instructions like the old days. I don't need a DVD to learn a packet trick.
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#169756 - 07/04/08 11:18 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Richard Kaufman]
James Munton James Munton Registered: 05/30/08 Posts: 95 Loc: Dallas, TX	Hmmm... $7.50 in 1975 is equivalent to $30.20 in today's money according to http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl So it seems that $15 for the gimmicked cards PLUS a DVD is indeed a bargain! By the way Happy Independence Day everyone! I've just got back from a very long day of shows where I must have performed Hundy 500 at least 500 times! I would happily have paid five times the price for that particular One Trick DVD. At the end of the day, isn't it about quality more than quantity? I have to admit I am biased since I have my own wonderful one trick DVD coming out soon - Three Card Bunny is on its way!!! Best, James _________________________ -- James Munton http://www.magicsells.com Products for Working Magicians
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#169759 - 07/04/08 11:53 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Richard Kaufman]
Alton Alton Registered: 04/23/08 Posts: 20	Oh i would also Richard. I loved the routines that have been put out in the past for under $10 that came with the gaffs and printed instructions. I also do not need a dvd to learn a packet trick. I was just pointing out that $30 for a one trick dvd is wayyyyyy too high and find it funny that John is putting out a one trick dvd for half that price so you know it can be done. For one, he does put together a .pdf (I don't think I have mentioned I hate .pdf e-books with a passion) which you don't see many taking the time to include with their one trick dvd's. For another, I think it wouldn't take much to include a printed copy along with the dvd for $15 considering that dvd's when bought in bulk are not but a couple of cents (I have a dvd burner and have bought blanks before). I surely prefer books over dvd's myself. You know the old saying that in order to hide a routine, put it in a book? I saw where a manufacturer of dvd set ($35 and had 13 or 14 effects) released 1 routine from the set separately for $20 from the set, using the same footage and was getting hammered because he wasn't mentioning in the marketing blurb that said trick was included in the set(which is a separate issue all together). Are we getting to the same point with dvd's now? If you want to hide a really good routine put it either in a book or on a dvd set? Are the consumers so lazy they have to have everything put on a silver platter for them? I think so. The sad part is there are a lot of good material that will be overlooked. Thats good for me though. Here is a quote from Tim Trono from over at the other place regarding individual effect dvd's: Quote: On 2008-03-26 17:50, Tim Trono wrote: The trend seems to be more and more for single trick DVDs. Gone overall are the days of Joe Smith and his magic repertoire. I think people want the "editing" to be done for them- in other words they want someone to pick THE best item and put it on a DVD. They don't want to sit through 10 or 12 routines even if it is a better value. To some dealers the other material clouds the best material. It's a lot like what is happening with the music industry. It used to be a musician put out an album (I'm dating myself LOL) or CD and it contained a number of their releases with maybe one or two true highlights. Certainly the other music was not filler but maybe just not the shining star that one or sometimes two pieces were. This allowed them to get the other non highlights (but no doubt GREAT music) out as well. Those days are coming to an end with iTunes, downloads, etc. - people are ONLY buying the highlights. This is having a big effect on the music industry for artists as some of their non highlight music will not see the light of day. Now I love dvd's/videos since they have allowed me to watch some of the greats in action, Harry Lorayne, Martin Nash, Michael Close, Bill Malone...but i buy the source books as well, if available, because I usually find nice things hidden within the pages usually weeks, months, and sometimes years later when I re-read them. So I think we as a society have just become extremely lazy. AT
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#169774 - 07/05/08 04:03 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Alton]
Ryan Matney Ryan Matney Registered: 01/18/08 Posts: 103 Loc: Hurley, Va	To comment on what Tim Trono said. I think what he says above is a resonable assumption to make. IE: Magicians want the editing done for them and want THE BEST trick made available. However that's not what is happening at all. Most of the crap is not 'edited' for us at all. It's just the one thing Mr. Magic could think of and whack onto a dvd for $35. So, to my way of thinking, that's not a valid position. I'd also like to add my two cents that Royal Magic is offering some very good deals on their newest releases. The Bannon tricks 'Royal Scam' and 'Duplicity' the David Solomon tricks 'Knaves gone Wild' and 'Thoughts Across' and the new dvd package on magic with an expanded shell. These are all great deals and teriffic tricks with bonus effects thrown in. We might not need a dvd to learn a packet trick. Most of us here don't but in today's marketplace these are still good deals.
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#169775 - 07/05/08 08:15 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Ryan Matney]
Alton Alton Registered: 04/23/08 Posts: 20	Originally Posted By: Ryan Matney To comment on what Tim Trono said. I think what he says above is a resonable assumption to make. IE: Magicians want the editing done for them and want THE BEST trick made available. I put his quote in since he is a producer and makes his opinion known why. Rather it is right or wrong. Quote: However that's not what is happening at all. Most of the crap is not 'edited' for us at all. It's just the one thing Mr. Magic could think of and whack onto a dvd for $35. So, to my way of thinking, that's not a valid position. I agree thats why I made the statement that everyone seems to want to be published regardless of working experience with the released product. As as side note, I am going to be releasing my version of Scarne's Drunken Poker entitled Dry Heaving. It has been honed to perfection over the last 15 years. It will be a home made single effect dvd of my performance during a recent party and it will be available with your choice of a case of beer or half gallon of liquor (please specify your type and brand of preference)and also be including a deck of cards (alcohol and cards aka the Dry Heaving kit). Price will be $70. There will also be a download version available for $35 minus the Dry Heaving kit. Hang over supplements sold seperately. Quote: I'd also like to add my two cents that Royal Magic is offering some very good deals on their newest releases. The Bannon tricks 'Royal Scam' and 'Duplicity' the David Solomon tricks 'Knaves gone Wild' and 'Thoughts Across' and the new dvd package on magic with an expanded shell. These are all great deals and teriffic tricks with bonus effects thrown in. We might not need a dvd to learn a packet trick. Most of us here don't but in today's marketplace these are still good deals. Yep. I hope the marketplace changes soon and with gas prices as high as they are and still rising, it may change sooner than we think. Everyone is going to be bargain shopping (if they aren't already) since some of their expendable cash will be fading going toward $7 a gallon gas (man I hope it don't get there but it isn't going down). BTW, great discussion guys. AT
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#169776 - 07/05/08 10:09 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Alton]
Richard Kaufman Richard Kaufman The Chief Genii Registered: 07/18/01 Posts: 12212 Loc: Washington DC	Think how incredibly stupid and narrow-minded the buying public has become. Think of all the wonderful songs on albums (or CDs) that you discovered that were not the big hit, or the hit song that the record company wanted you to hear. All those other great songs. Now you're treated like a dumb-shit brick--you get the one song, or the one trick, the manufacturer WANTS you to like. The hell with the "hidden gems." Think of all the great tricks in the big books I've published, not the famous ones, but the thousands of others that still create great magic in the hands of a magic in front of an audience, or have intellectually stimulated those who enjoy reading and practicing magic for its own sake. I say to hell with all of the one-trick DVD jerks. Unless you're Rene Lavand, a dynamic performer who has something to offer me by watching him do a trick rather than merely reading about it, I don't need your damn one-trick DVD. You think you gain anything by watching someone do a packet trick on DVD? No. It's just bullshit. There are VERY few performers today whose visual presence in instructions adds anything to most of the crap that's put on the market. Difficult sleights have a place on a DVD, because it's helpful to see them in order to understand them. But I want a full DVD of material if I'm going to spend any money. I remember when all of this started: back when Dominique Duvivier's trick "Printing" came out for $25. There was no DVD back then, but I thought to myself, "What the hell is happening? Why would anyone pay $25 for packet trick?" Guess what ... you all bought it. Now you're paying the price.
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#169781 - 07/05/08 11:21 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Richard Kaufman]
Alton Alton Registered: 04/23/08 Posts: 20	Originally Posted By: Richard Kaufman Guess what ... you all bought it. Now you're paying the price. I agree we have become a product of our own stupidity. Not just in magic either! AT
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#169783 - 07/05/08 11:34 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Alton]
RogueMD RogueMD Registered: 01/19/08 Posts: 53 Loc: Virginia	As a practical matter, books are MUCH more convenient as well. Using the proverbial "desert island" scenario...DVDs wont get you very far...one trick or not. I happen to be a bibliophile and so am naturally prejudiced in such matters; non withstanding, magic "BOOKS" will always be in fashion and remain the standard of instruction for me. Keep 'em coming Richard...keep 'em coming. Michael
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#169951 - 07/07/08 07:55 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: James Munton]
Eric Rose Eric Rose Member Registered: 02/08/08 Posts: 220 Loc: Franklin, Indiana	Originally Posted By: James Munton Hmmm... At the end of the day, isn't it about quality more than quantity? I have to admit I am biased since I have my own wonderful one trick DVD coming out soon - Three Card Bunny is on its way!!! Best, James I guess it is a question of quality, but if someone wants me to drop $25 for a version of Color Monte (gaffs included) then the quality of information in the ad had better be pretty high, too. Don't just tell me that the trick is used by "top magicians", tell me who they are. It's going to take a lot of convincing and more than self-praise to sway me. Maybe that's just the discretion that comes with experience. Yes, there are some tricks and magicians that warrant a single trick DVD release, but the list is very, very short and if you reduce it to packet tricks and their varients only, the list is nearly non-existent. The rest are simply the marketeers exploiting both the market and the marks. e I'm Eric Rose and I endorse this message.
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#169958 - 07/07/08 11:07 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Eric Rose]
James Munton James Munton Registered: 05/30/08 Posts: 95 Loc: Dallas, TX	Quote: The rest are simply the marketeers exploiting both the market and the marks. This is not just directed at you Eric, but there seems to be quite a bit of hostility in this thread towards producers and manufacturers. I think the general quality of products - tricks, DVDS and books - is better now than it ever has been. It wasn't that long ago that magic videos cost as much as $75. Individual tricks were traded "underground" sometimes for ridiculous sums of money. I think it was Michael Ammar who shared the story of paying $100 for a thumbtip. Magicians have far greater access to routines than ever before. And the preponderance of magic fora such as this fine site enable people to easily share their opinions and reviews of products so that the purchaser can make an informed buying decision. The marketplace ultimately decides whether $25 is an appropriate amount for a single trick with DVD. And it would seem that they sell quite well at that price point. But just so you know, nobody gets rich from these types of releases. The wholesaler typically pays the manufacturer 40% of retail. The retailer pays the manufacturer 60%. So on a $25 item, the creator will get $10 per unit. Out of that s/he has to pay for the production costs, marketing and advertising, etc. They'll be lucky to make about $6 for each unit sold. And that is before you factor in the time and energy it takes to produce something like this. No, I am not doing this to make lots of money and "exploit" people. I am doing it mainly for FUN. It is a vanity project. It's great to put something together, market and sell it. Just like authors who self-publish, there is a desire to share one's work with others. Later this week I am traveling back to my old home town of Washington, DC to do a bunch of shows. I've organized a lecture while I am there. I'll have a few products to sell at the end. But I'm certainly not doing it for the money. I'll make far more from my shows. The main reason is for the fun of hanging out with a roomful of magicians and showing them what I can do. Nobody has to buy anything. But if everyone shared the rather mean-spirited attitude of some folks on this thread, nobody would go to the trouble of putting out products. I think it is a ridiculous notion that people who take the time to put out a magic product do so out of a desire to exploit the customers. And for those who actually perform for people instead of sitting at home watching magic DVDs all day or spouting nonsense in a magic chat room, $25 for a trick that you can regularly perform at your weekly restaurant gig is an absolute bargain! But that's just my opinion. Best, James _________________________ -- James Munton http://www.magicsells.com Products for Working Magicians
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#169961 - 07/07/08 11:51 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: James Munton]
Brian Morton Brian Morton Registered: 03/12/08 Posts: 343 Loc: Bawlamer, Merlin	Originally Posted By: James Munton But just so you know, nobody gets rich from these types of releases. The wholesaler typically pays the manufacturer 40% of retail. The retailer pays the manufacturer 60%. Really? I bet Brad Christian of E-llusionist is very amused at this. After all, when you don't have to worry about wholesalers and retailers, you have $100,000 to give away to "celebrities" to do magic on cable and expand your marketing base. Plus you don't even have to burn DVDs . And I'm sure he's not rich at all. Depending on your definition, of course. Regards, brian
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#169962 - 07/08/08 12:26 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Brian Morton]
James Munton James Munton Registered: 05/30/08 Posts: 95 Loc: Dallas, TX	Brian, Now you are shifting the goalposts. We were talking about one-trick DVDs. And again, there is the cynical, negative attitude. I have no idea about Brad Christian's bank balance. If he is doing well for himself, that's wonderful. I hear Rocco did alright for himself selling D-Lites. Is it the one trick DVD you object to, or simply people making money for providing goods or services? I'm happy to discuss either with you, but can we stick with one topic? James _________________________ -- James Munton http://www.magicsells.com Products for Working Magicians
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#169989 - 07/08/08 11:19 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: James Munton]
Geoff Weber Geoff Weber Registered: 07/02/08 Posts: 20	From the creator's standpoint, if you've invented a trick that is worthy of being marketed, is there a better option than producing it as a DVD? I would submit that there is not. The only other options are magazine submissions, instant downloads, or booklets. Magazines are fine if you aren't interested in profiting from your work, downloads are too easy to steal, and one trick booklets/manuscripts are even more unpopular than one-trick DVDs... (while people moan about the one trick dvds, at least they buy them.)
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#170028 - 07/08/08 04:24 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Geoff Weber]
Gord Gord Registered: 01/18/08 Posts: 373 Loc: Brampton, Ontario	I'm a little behind in my reading so I only read the column last night, and cannot agree with Richard more. The only thing worse than offering a DVD with one lousy trick is buying a DVD with one lousy trick. Gord
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#170041 - 07/08/08 05:55 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: James Munton]
Brian Morton Brian Morton Registered: 03/12/08 Posts: 343 Loc: Bawlamer, Merlin	Originally Posted By: James Munton Now you are shifting the goalposts. We were talking about one-trick DVDs. And again, there is the cynical, negative attitude. I have no idea about Brad Christian's bank balance. If he is doing well for himself, that's wonderful. I hear Rocco did alright for himself selling D-Lites. Is it the one trick DVD you object to, or simply people making money for providing goods or services? I'm happy to discuss either with you, but can we stick with one topic? James: In this case, the medium is not the message, it's the content that counts, an the value for that content. Selling "one trick" for $20 or $35, whether it's via a download or a DVD, when a book contains hundreds of effects, plus ample crediting, is bordering on criminal to new magicians. Pardon my cynical negative attitude -- it's a byproduct of seeing people get ripped off far more than I was in my youth buying lame single-off tricks when dealers could have steered me toward books and pamphlets just as easily. As for Brad Christian, I can let Jamy Swiss's essay in Antinomy say it far better than I could: Quote: The general impression one gets of Mr. Christian on his videos is that of a bland, middle-aged, white-bread guy, with little performance ability, and sleight-of-hand skills at about the level of an amateur hobbyist with, by contemporary standards, perhaps one or two years of experience. As a street magician he is purely a creation of the camera, but even more important, his standing lies solely within a community that lacks any basis for comparison ... Then there are the issues of Mr. Christian’s failure to credit originators for the material he exploits; his failure to obtain appropriate permission to use that material; and his habit of renaming well-known tricks in order to further obscure their origins. I don't consider it "wonderful" when someone appropriates material, renames it, performs it poorly for video, and then sells it on the Internet. But perhaps we have different standards. I have no problem with Rocco's D-Lite. It was a trick that provided value for the money. He created it, he created effects to go with it, and he deserves the profits he gets. What Rocco did has no bearing on this discussion. I think one-trick DVDs are ripoffs. I think one-trick video downloads are even worse, since the offenders aren't even fronting the costs of DVD production and duplication. If someone sold one crappy trick in a booklet for $35, he'd be laughed out of the business after long. If it's a great trick, with great instructions, method, crediting, hell -- I'll even throw in pictures, even if they're not necessary -- I'd go for it, for far more than thirty five bucks. But that better be a great trick, and come with some pretty good recommendations by some serious thinkers or working pros. I have friends who have paid more for one trick or method -- how much would you pay to have had personal instructions on Steve Spill's Bill in Lemon or Eddie Fields's code act? But one trick? On a DVD or download from someone you never heard of before? Yeah, call me cynical, negative even. brian $\:\($
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#170051 - 07/08/08 07:30 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Brian Morton]
James Munton James Munton Registered: 05/30/08 Posts: 95 Loc: Dallas, TX	Quote: I don't consider it "wonderful" when someone appropriates material, renames it, performs it poorly for video, and then sells it on the Internet. But perhaps we have different standards. Not only are you moving the goalposts again, you are accusing me of something I haven't even implied. That's not just proof of your inability to debate, it is downright rude. But I see you are a journalist. That explains everything. _________________________ -- James Munton http://www.magicsells.com Products for Working Magicians
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#170055 - 07/08/08 07:58 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: James Munton]
Brian Morton Brian Morton Registered: 03/12/08 Posts: 343 Loc: Bawlamer, Merlin	James, instead of characterizing my arguments, perhaps you'd care to address their merits. Which is what I'd expect of someone who claims he knows who can and cannot understand how to debate. (They teach this in journalism schools, you know.) brian
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#170061 - 07/08/08 08:59 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Brian Morton]
James Munton James Munton Registered: 05/30/08 Posts: 95 Loc: Dallas, TX	Quote: James, instead of characterizing my arguments, perhaps you'd care to address their merits. If you had an actual argument, I'd be happy to respond. All I see is a list of disconnected gripes and lame straw man arguments (they did teach you about those in journalism school, didn't they?) _________________________ -- James Munton http://www.magicsells.com Products for Working Magicians
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#170062 - 07/08/08 09:02 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Brian Morton]
Dustin Stinett Dustin Stinett Dark Fascist Overlord Registered: 07/22/01 Posts: 6343 Loc: Southern California	[First, I have to say that I am getting really tired of the BS sniping that’s been going on here lately. I had to delete almost a dozen posts in another thread as a result of this nonsense. If you have to yap at each other, please use the Private Message function. You can measure your weenies there. Thanks.] As for the subject at hand, single trick DVDs, I understand Richard’s argument, but I also understand that there is a level of quality that can justify the practice. It’s just very rare. For example, Bob White’s DVDs on the T&R Napkin, Egg Bag, Linking Rings, and Cups and Balls are all “single trick” DVDs if you stop and think about it. But the difference is that these discs offer complete lessons; a level of detail one would expect from one-on-one lessons. These DVDs are worth every penny of the $50 Mr. White asks for them (same with his palming DVD which is a “single subject” DVD I suppose). I can think of others as well: Mike Caveney’s “Powers of Darkness” comes immediately to mind. The price includes the props while the routine is explained on video—and exceptionally well at that. Again, it’s a lesson in performing the piece correctly. And perhaps that’s the difference; the depth of these projects makes them “single subject” DVDs with multiple lessons wrapped around a single trick. Compared to a DVD with a card trick explained on it and nothing else of substance, well that’s apples and oranges I suppose. But the good ones are still “one trick DVDs.” Dustin
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#170069 - 07/08/08 10:29 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Dustin Stinett]
Steve Bryant Steve Bryant Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 230 Loc: Bloomington IN	I just received Revelation today from Mike Caveney. This book is so beautifully executed and of such extraordinary content that it gives one goosebumps. It's nice, re this discussion of the glut of dvds, to see such a labor of love emerge.
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#170076 - 07/09/08 01:28 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Steve Bryant]
The Magic Apple The Magic Apple Registered: 01/23/08 Posts: 350 Loc: Studio City, CA	Wow!! I can't wait to read this "one trick DVD" article...I am sorry to say that I haven't even picked up the July issue yet... THere are VERY VERY few "one trick" DVDs that are any good and I hate to name names...so I won't but owning a magic shop and watching all the 'garbage' that is being released, I hope all the "KIDS" read this article. If anyone is interested, I would GLADLY 'call out' the schmucks that have released TRASH in the past new months/years _________________________ The Magic Apple 818-508-9921 Best Of All Worlds COMING SOON
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#170079 - 07/09/08 01:45 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: The Magic Apple]
Dustin Stinett Dustin Stinett Dark Fascist Overlord Registered: 07/22/01 Posts: 6343 Loc: Southern California	Don't be afraid to. Just do it in a professional manner (which doesn't always include using words like "Schmuck"). (No offesne intended, but...) That's one of the things I miss about David Malek's email ads: He used to slam stuff that deserved slamming. By the way; it wasn't an article per se: It was Richard commenting in "The Genii Speaks."
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#170081 - 07/09/08 02:22 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Dustin Stinett]
The Magic Apple The Magic Apple Registered: 01/23/08 Posts: 350 Loc: Studio City, CA	If I go in to details about the various companies and 'magicians' that have been putting out these Gems, this post would be roughly seventeen pages long. In MUM Magazine, Genii Magazine, and Magic Magazine (for starters), a particular DVD was reviewed and I can't tell you how badly it was talked about. This same company released a DVD that 'magically' turns water into beer. The so-called magic that this particular company releases is an embarassment to magic. There is also a 'magician' that has released some miracles: One of which is a torn corner of a card that apparently restores itself on the other side of a glass window and everything is examinable. Well - this effect is NOT EVEN PERFORMED on the 14 Minute DVD. He also has one in where the deck is CUT (not shuffled), a card is looked at and the magician tells the spectator what card is looked at. This friggin' miracle is a 10 minute DVD that uses a LOUSY effect, a LOUSY stack and a LOUSY routine. Without boring you all with the other products..this is a small insight to what I am talking about... _________________________ The Magic Apple 818-508-9921 Best Of All Worlds COMING SOON
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#170096 - 07/09/08 10:10 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: The Magic Apple]
James Munton James Munton Registered: 05/30/08 Posts: 95 Loc: Dallas, TX	I think we have discovered the real issue! It is not so much the format of the single trick DVD that is the problem, it is the fact that some manufacturers are releasing crappy products. This is certainly nothing new in magic. And it is helpful when dealers such as Magic Apple are honest and inform their customers which tricks to avoid. _________________________ -- James Munton http://www.magicsells.com Products for Working Magicians
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#170100 - 07/09/08 10:55 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: James Munton]
Richard Kaufman Richard Kaufman The Chief Genii Registered: 07/18/01 Posts: 12212 Loc: Washington DC	Sorry, but single trick DVDs are a pervasive problem.
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#170104 - 07/09/08 11:31 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: The Magic Apple]
Geoff Weber Geoff Weber Registered: 07/02/08 Posts: 20	I think the fundamental issue here is "what is a trick worth?" Which is confusing, because pricing ranges so widely. I don't think its fair to compare the price of work released by a single individual to the collected works of 100s of people. That's like comparing mom&pop to CostCo, of COURSE Costco is going to be cheaper, but that doesn't mean mom&pop are trying to rip you off. Lets look at the pricing on Jay Sankey's "Airtight". If you bought in in Richard Kaufman's Sankey Panky, ($35 / 37 tricks), it cost you $0.95, unless you weren't interested in the other material, than it cost you $35. Or maybe you bought it on Sankey-tized Vol.2 ($30 / 8 tricks) it cost you $3.75. It was also sold by itself as a booklet with balloons for $10. Should Copperfield pay more to use it on TV than Mr.Magic who does it a birthday party? What if you don't use it to make a living, what if its just a toy for your hobby? The Collected Almanac has 378 tricks for $60, thats only 16 cents per trick. Is that what the going rate for magic tricks should be? What is fair compensation for a tricks inventor? Maybe it should all just be free online? If it comes with a gimmick, is it suddenly worth $100 more? Are you paying for the secret or for the craftsmanship of the gimmick? I know I could get most magic gimmicks fabricated for a fraction of the cost they retail for if I knew the secret. Not everyone is capable of creating a book's worth of material like Jay Sankey, but they still might be capable of one good idea. Look at all the one hit wonders in the music industry. Having one good idea is not uncommon. If you only have one good idea, what should you do with it? Is it bad to try and profit from it?
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#170107 - 07/09/08 12:20 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Geoff Weber]
James Munton James Munton Registered: 05/30/08 Posts: 95 Loc: Dallas, TX	Richard, I look forward to reading your thoughts in the magazine. But so far, in this thread, nobody has been able to explain why they feel having the instructions for a packet trick on a DVD is worse than having instructions printed on paper! It seems there are plenty of bad tricks (past, present and presumably future). Surely that is a separate issue from the way they are distributed. There are also plenty of over-priced tricks. Again, this has nothing to do with the format of a one-trick DVD. Thanks to technology, it is becoming easier for people to create and distribute their products. This is a double-edged sword. There is more crap to wade through, but more chance of original, innovative products making it into the marketplace. I personally find reading e-books annoying (I can't wait for a future generation of the Kindle to come out.) But the ease of producing e-books has led to some amazing work being distributed. I'd point to Bresler's Switchcraft as an excellent example. I just don't see how anyone is being exploited or ripped-off. We are getting lots more choice! And the need for good, honest reviews (such as those in your excellent publication!) are more useful than ever to help separate the wheat from the chaff. Best, James _________________________ -- James Munton http://www.magicsells.com Products for Working Magicians
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#170108 - 07/09/08 12:23 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: James Munton]
Richard Kaufman Richard Kaufman The Chief Genii Registered: 07/18/01 Posts: 12212 Loc: Washington DC	I wouldn't mind at all if the instructions were on a DVD and the packet trick was priced at $7.50 or $10. That's what a packet trick is worth. But you can have DVDs pressed for about 50 cents or less today, and people use that as an excuse to charge $25 to $35 for a single trick in which you don't receive a prop that has cost the manufacturer more than a few pennies (like a double backed card).
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#170109 - 07/09/08 12:24 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: James Munton]
mrgoat mrgoat Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 1138 Loc: Brighton, UK	Originally Posted By: James Munton But so far, in this thread, nobody has been able to explain why they feel having the instructions for a packet trick on a DVD is worse than having instructions printed on paper! I'll take a stab at it. You could easily teach a packet trick via printed instructions. You would sell it for $10 (or whatever). Or, you get a mate with a camcorder to shoot a video and get another mate with some editing software to cut it. It's not lit well, the sound is flakey, the inexperienced editor makes what should have been 10 minutes into an hour. You feel you can sell that for $25 (or whatever) because IT IS A DVD! This is what I feel about the topic. When I say 'you' I am not talking to anyone in particular. For the record. $\:D$
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#170122 - 07/09/08 02:36 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: mrgoat]
James Munton James Munton Registered: 05/30/08 Posts: 95 Loc: Dallas, TX	Thanks. So it would seem it's mainly the price that is the issue. A few of you don't want to spend more than a couple of cups of coffee for something that has taken time, energy and expense to put together. Richard, I'd love to know where I can get DVDs pressed for 50 cents. The best I could get was $2.00 for 100 DVDs pressed, packaged and wrapped. If I order 1,000 that goes down to about $1.40. The cards I put in with the DVD cost about $1.50 a set. By the way, that is after I have spent quite a bit of money experimenting with other cards that didn't meet my standards. I also have to pay for advertising and marketing. As you know, there are more costs involved than just the physical product. And most producers are doing small runs where you can't get economies of scale. So if magicians really are so cheap they'll refuse to pay more than $10 for a trick, I'll tell you what will happen. Small producers like me won't bother putting products out. ALL you will have left will be the Brad Christians and Magic Makers of the world. Finally, the crappy trick/shoddy production argument is irrelevant since it applies equally to all forms of magic products. It is indeed a problem, but by no means limited to single-trick DVDs. James _________________________ -- James Munton http://www.magicsells.com Products for Working Magicians
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#170126 - 07/09/08 03:17 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: James Munton]
mrgoat mrgoat Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 1138 Loc: Brighton, UK	Originally Posted By: James Munton Thanks. So it would seem it's mainly the price that is the issue. Not in the least. Let me try again. You have two options a) put out a trick for 10 bucks with printed instructions b) put out a trick with a (usually) low quality DVD for 25 bucks It is the same trick. One has a DVD you don't need, that is poor, and has increased the cost by 15 bucks. It's not the amount of money that is the issue at all. It is the pointless addition of an unnecessary DVD that is the issue. Hope my view is clear now.
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#170127 - 07/09/08 03:34 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: mrgoat]
James Munton James Munton Registered: 05/30/08 Posts: 95 Loc: Dallas, TX	But you are offering an impossible choice - nobody can put out a good packet trick for 10 bucks and hope to make it worth their time and effort!!! Why not offer the choice of free magic trick plus a chocolate milkshake? I'd take three! What if the choices were: a) put out a trick for $20 with printed instructions b) put out a trick with DVD (good quality) for $25 Would you still moan about the DVD? I think some of you are still stuck in 1970's prices. People in the UK pay 10 bucks for a single gallon of gas these days!!! Retailing at 10 bucks, I'd get $4 from the wholesaler and after deducting my materials and other expenses how many would I have to sell to possibly make it worth my time and effort? Don't answer that, I'll tell you - too many! If you think a trick is crap, I agree it is not worth any price. But if it is something good that you will use, surely it is worth $20 - 25? If not, you all might want to find more affordable hobbies? I'm not sure what a set of knitting needles and some wool costs these days. Probably at least 10 lousy bucks! Jeez Louise! Magicians ARE a bunch of cheap bastards! Best, James _________________________ -- James Munton http://www.magicsells.com Products for Working Magicians
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#170128 - 07/09/08 03:44 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: mrgoat]
castawaydave castawaydave Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 244 Loc: California	I agree with mrgoat: It's not about "price" it's about relative "value". Can anyone name a combination of one-trick dvds that together (totaling $65) can compare to the wealth of information/teaching in, i.e., the "value" of say, "Revelation"?
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#170129 - 07/09/08 03:47 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: James Munton]
mrgoat mrgoat Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 1138 Loc: Brighton, UK	Originally Posted By: James Munton But you are offering an impossible choice - nobody can put out a good packet trick for 10 bucks and hope to make it worth their time and effort!!! Jeez Louise! Magicians ARE a bunch of cheap bastards! Best, James You are wonderful at PR. I will be sure to invest in all your forthcoming releases. The numbers I used were solely for illustrative purposes only. Feel free to swop out 10 and 25 for x and y My point, and I am astounded you still don't understand, is this: You put out a product. Do you a) put it out for $x with printed instructions or b) put it out for £x+$y bucks with an superfluous DVD no one wants
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#170130 - 07/09/08 03:50 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: castawaydave]
James Munton James Munton Registered: 05/30/08 Posts: 95 Loc: Dallas, TX	Dave, What a silly comparison. Can you name a combination of random TV shows that compare in value to the cinematic genius of The Godfather? You still watch and enjoy both. It's funny that everyone who proclaims that it is not about the price contain a dollar amount somewhere in their post! Edited by James Munton (07/09/08 03:51 PM) _________________________ -- James Munton http://www.magicsells.com Products for Working Magicians
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#170132 - 07/09/08 03:54 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: James Munton]
James Munton James Munton Registered: 05/30/08 Posts: 95 Loc: Dallas, TX	MrGoat, I get your point. I disagree with you! James _________________________ -- James Munton http://www.magicsells.com Products for Working Magicians
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#170136 - 07/09/08 04:34 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: James Munton]
El Mystico El Mystico Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 454 Loc: Leamington Spa	In my experience, the majority of one trick DVDs contain tricks that are inferior to the classics. But, from the sales figures, it looks like the bulk of the great unwashed magicians prefer to buy the one trick DVDs than the classic books. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing. Often, magicians complain that the secrets of great magic are too readily available. Think of the criticisms of the Ammar Easy to Master series. It seems to me that if the wannabee magicians are buying these one trick DVDs, the result will be that only those with a real understanding will have accesss to the really useful material. It will be a case of not seeing the wood for the overly priced trees.
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#170138 - 07/09/08 04:42 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: James Munton]
castawaydave castawaydave Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 244 Loc: California	Hi James: --Above was merely "2 cents worth" trying to explain why some might prefer books over one trick dvds: "facile" perhaps, but not "silly"... :^D --indeed, you re-framed my point for me in that flimsy t.v. shows usually don't compare to great movies...just as one trick dvds usually don't compare to great books. That doesn't mean t.v. shows and one trick dvds have NO VALUE...in fact, IF a one trick dvd totally kicks ass, if it is rich & new, and its value is undeniable, then it transcends the usual "par for its genre", and CAN compare to a good book: and I say more power to everyone who DOES put out excellent/inspiring product/info/material on dvds... But just because something's on a dvd, doesn't make that material inherently worth more (unless you can't read, I guess). --Pretty packaging itself isn't rationale enough to justify the price if the info inside is mediocre, whatever hoops the producer has to jump through to get the project out there... Of course, if the current trends hold, soon nobody will read anymore at all anyway, books will come to have no value, and video will be the only way to get info...
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#170139 - 07/09/08 05:04 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: castawaydave]
James Munton James Munton Registered: 05/30/08 Posts: 95 Loc: Dallas, TX	Dave, I agree with pretty much everything you just said. Although ultimately I am more optimistic than you. I see a place for all the different media. I too love books. But I am not a book snob. Books can be just as crappy as DVDs. There is nothing inherently "better" about either. They serve a slightly different purpose. It's the content that is the important thing. Not the medium. And without the content, paper is just paper. In fact, I wipe my bum with paper. Can't do that with a DVD though. Okay, it's time for my nap. Best, James _________________________ -- James Munton http://www.magicsells.com Products for Working Magicians
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#170140 - 07/09/08 05:12 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: James Munton]
mrgoat mrgoat Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 1138 Loc: Brighton, UK	Originally Posted By: James Munton It's funny that everyone who proclaims that it is not about the price contain a dollar amount somewhere in their post! OK, once more: Hmm, I could put out a trick for x and make y. Or I could put out a trick for x+DVD and make y+DVD. Is the DVD needed? Nope. Will I make more profit, hell yeah. OK, let's go the DVD route.
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#170141 - 07/09/08 05:19 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: mrgoat]
James Munton James Munton Registered: 05/30/08 Posts: 95 Loc: Dallas, TX	...is including a DVD and charging $25 the only way I could actually make this worth my time and effort? ...will magicians who aren't penny-pinching tight-wads enjoy the DVD and enjoy being able to watch the performance and learn the moves more easily? Yes and yes. Do I have a headache and need a nap? YES! James _________________________ -- James Munton http://www.magicsells.com Products for Working Magicians
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#170148 - 07/09/08 05:53 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: James Munton]
mrgoat mrgoat Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 1138 Loc: Brighton, UK	Originally Posted By: James Munton ...will magicians who aren't penny-pinching tight-wads Excellent business strategy to call your potential customers you are attempting to win round "tight wads". OK, I get your point, you can make more money selling a DVD. Good for you. God bless capitalism.
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#170157 - 07/09/08 07:42 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: mrgoat]
James Munton James Munton Registered: 05/30/08 Posts: 95 Loc: Dallas, TX	I would think true potential customers would prefer to know that I consider honesty more important than selling them stuff. I get lots of calls from people looking for a $100 magician. I explain to them nicely that they will have to pay considerably more than that for quality entertainment. Occasionally I get a call from someone like you who believes I should work for nothing. I'm not very polite to those callers. Sometimes they come round to my way of thinking, but usually they don't. That's okay. I keep busy enough. I see you live in Brighton. Fun place - I do love Brighton. ...but well known for being full of penny-pinching tight-wads $\:\)$ _________________________ -- James Munton http://www.magicsells.com Products for Working Magicians
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#170173 - 07/10/08 12:41 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: mrgoat]
Bill Duncan Bill Duncan Registered: 03/13/08 Posts: 1242	Originally Posted By: mrgoat You have two options a) put out a trick for 10 bucks with printed instructions b) put out a trick with a (usually) low quality DVD for 25 bucks But of course most folks can't put out a trick with printed instructions. Spend an hour reading the tricks in the Secret Sessions on The Magic Cafe, or other board. Most magicians can't write well enough to explain their opinions, let alone complex magical methods. And the complexity increases exponentially when you have to describe an unknown move, and can’t rely on “do an Elmsley count.” I suspect most people put out DVDs because they can point a camera at their hands and say “put your left middle finger here, and do this…” Edited by Bill Duncan (07/10/08 12:42 AM)
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#170176 - 07/10/08 01:06 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Bill Duncan]
The Magic Apple The Magic Apple Registered: 01/23/08 Posts: 350 Loc: Studio City, CA	It isn't so much the choice of written instructions vs a DVD..the DVDs are CRAPPY CRAPPERSON. I have no problem with people learning magic by watching rather than reading BUT the EFFECTS on these DVDs are usually JUNK. Half the time, these 'magicians' can't even perform the effect. As in Arise and Cornered. The Magic Apple will NOT even carry tricks from the previously mentioned 'magicans' even if they have an ABSOLUTE MIRACLE with a product in the future. _________________________ The Magic Apple 818-508-9921 Best Of All Worlds COMING SOON
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#170183 - 07/10/08 05:39 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: The Magic Apple]
Matthew Field Matthew Field Registered: 01/18/08 Posts: 215 Loc: Hastings, England, UK	As the editor of a magic magazine, I get many things to review. many of these are one-trick DVDs. The overwhelming majority of these are, as Magic Apple eloquently put it, CRAPPY CRAPPERSON. My latest horror was having to view something called 'Liquid', an ostensible card through window. But how about multi-DVD projects? One such set, from a magician I much admire, and a company whose owner is a magician I admire as well, has three disks with a total of 146 minutes (2 hrs 26 mins) of material, 9 tricks in total. But there are many examples of projects tht have been stretched from 2 to 3 or even 4 videos. Of course it's about the money. But it's also about the value. One trick from Bob White does not equal one trick from the dreaded Kevin Parker ('pSnype'). By Mr. Munton's logic, no one would write a magic book -- it's not worth it. (Or edit a magic magazine either, but that's another story.) But it is sometimes about more than the money. The problem is that sometimes it is mostly about the money -- like bad novels, bad movies and bad TV. Matt Field
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#170186 - 07/10/08 09:19 AM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: Matthew Field]
James Munton James Munton Registered: 05/30/08 Posts: 95 Loc: Dallas, TX	Unlike many on this thread, I have nothing but respect for those who write books, create DVDs, put out individual tricks, or produce magic magazines - good ones, of course. This is exactly what I have been saying! Most people don't know how difficult and how much work goes into putting out a good product. As much as I love performing magic, I also need to put food on the table like everyone else. So I charge for my services. I've repeatedly said that I have no time for people who put out substandard products. But I am happy to reward the creator of a good product the modest amount s/he charges. People are quibbling about paying $15 or $20 instead of $10. I AGREE and HAVE SAID BEFORE that a bad product is not worth any price. But I am happy to pay a decent amount for a good magic book, DVD, single trick or magic magazine! I think the thing we all agree on is that there are too many crappy products. I just don't agree that the one-trick DVDs are the problem. And I tend not to buy crappy products very often, because usually you can just tell. Anyway, I've got a plane to catch... Washington, DC here I come!!! Edited by James Munton (07/10/08 09:20 AM) _________________________ -- James Munton http://www.magicsells.com Products for Working Magicians
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#170869 - 07/18/08 01:05 PM Re: One Trick DVD Article by Richard Kaufman [Re: James Munton]
Scott Fridinger Scott Fridinger Registered: 03/16/08 Posts: 223	I can't remember the last time I paid less than $15 for any packet trick. So maybe this isn't limited to DVDs.
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#171000 - 07/20/08 08:51 AM Re: Genii Speaks (July, 08) [Re: Michael Jay]
Allen Tipton Allen Tipton Registered: 07/20/08 Posts: 62	Yes we must retain books. How else is a magician to learn to think & reason out for Himself. It is also so much easier to turn back a page and refresh the information than dodge about on a dvd. And Studying from a book makes the information stick easier in the mind as well as helping the creative forces to work, grow & extend your mental capabilities Of course dvds can demonstrate a handling, a move but all too often young magicians especially will simply COPY what they see & just reproduce it. One trick dvds are just a cheap way of getting money Allen Tipton UK
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#171002 - 07/20/08 09:21 AM Re: Genii Speaks (July, 08) [Re: Allen Tipton]
Paul Gordon Paul Gordon Registered: 05/01/08 Posts: 162 Loc: UK	To Michael, Allen and RK, Here, here! I couldn't agree more.... Paul Gordon _________________________ Secure Online Magic Shop: http://www.paulgordon.net/shop.html
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#171022 - 07/20/08 03:57 PM Re: Genii Speaks (July, 08) [Re: Paul Gordon]
castawaydave castawaydave Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 244 Loc: California	You will be interested in this other thread... :^D
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#171026 - 07/20/08 05:14 PM Re: Genii Speaks (July, 08) [Re: castawaydave]
castawaydave castawaydave Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 244 Loc: California	Oops...this other thread: http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=168545#Post168545
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#171496 - 07/27/08 01:26 AM Re: Genii Speaks (July, 08) [Re: castawaydave]
bagelsandlox bagelsandlox Registered: 03/31/08 Posts: 44	Listen up you wombats! You better strike now while it's early and boycott one trick DVD's. Remember when attendants filled our Da's tank and washed his windows and checked his oil as a free service for buying gas? Then they added a pump where you could pump your own gas ( not cheaper, just...if you were in a hurry ). Then two pumps and then...all the pumps were self service and no one checked your oil or washed your windows. Buy DVD's with 20 tricks. BOYCOTT one trick DVD's or it will become the norm. Be even smarter and BUY BOOKS! And in supermarketts they have self service.
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#174160 - 08/26/08 05:44 PM Re: Genii Speaks (July, 08) [Re: bagelsandlox]
Randy Naviaux Randy Naviaux Registered: 08/26/08 Posts: 47	Quote: Buy DVD's with 20 tricks. BOYCOTT one trick DVD's or it will become the norm. Be even smarter and BUY BOOKS! There are some very good texts on this subject. I recommend "Focus" by Al Ries to start with. You might as well argue about the way gravity makes it harder for you to get out of your recliner each year. A local magician in Utah had the same concerns as many here. This magician in question has two products on the market: A compilation video and a "one-trick" video. He mentioned wanting to release the compilation on DVD or something to that effect. I urged him to put out the "one-trick" on DVD. He wanted to give value for the buck, etc. I bet him that if he contacted his wholesaler they would tell him that he had sold far more of the one trick DVD. (He did and they had.) It hardly matters what our opinions are on this topic. The more focused the product the better it will sell. Put a volume of Tarbell on the counter next to a one trick DVD of an effect taken from that same book being sold for the same price...your going to sell a lot more DVDs. Heck you could even make it a manuscript and I bet you would sell more of those than the Tarbell volume. Walking through a mall provides a lot of evidence for the power of focusing a product. The good news is there are lots of ways to focus a product. Read the book. It covers this far better than I ever could.
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#188785 - 03/01/09 11:51 AM Re: Genii Speaks (July, 08) [Re: Randy Naviaux]
Mike Rubinstein Mike Rubinstein Registered: 08/20/08 Posts: 126 Loc: New York	I've bought one trick DVD's (signed coin in soda can - GREAT trick, and worth the price), and sold one trick DVD's (Coins though the table - $10) - it depends on the quality of the trick, and the price. I prefer this over a DVD with several effects, that contains filler (too many to mention). Have you noticed that a DVD can contain up to 2 hours of quality data, yet many DVDs contain LESS than one and a half hours of stuff? Whats wrong with that picture? When I produce DVD's with the New York Coin Magic Seminar group, we try to give the buyer value, with about 2 hours or more per DVD, and no filler, for the usual DVD price of $35. We have needed a double layer DVD for a few of the volumes, and it costs a few cents more, but heck, magicians should get good value for their money!
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#193269 - 05/02/09 06:58 PM Re: Genii Speaks (July, 08) [Re: Mike Rubinstein]
Jeff.Prace Jeff.Prace Registered: 01/13/09 Posts: 47	People are buying "one trick DVDs" because they are always looking for the one trick that will make them famous. Too bad that trick will never come, but they don't know that. So when they see something they like, they'll buy it. _________________________ GUM is coming soon! See the trailer!
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#193298 - 05/03/09 06:13 AM Re: Genii Speaks (July, 08) [Re: Jeff.Prace]
bluesparx1902 bluesparx1902 Member Registered: 05/03/09 Posts: 5	Originally Posted By: Jeff.Prace People are buying "one trick DVDs" because they are always looking for the one trick that will make them famous. Not really. Buyers of one-trick DVDs are, by and large, hobbyists whose ambitions are likely no loftier than the satisfaction of curiosity. It's a natural urge and not always a bad thing.
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#193316 - 05/03/09 02:28 PM Re: Genii Speaks (July, 08) [Re: bluesparx1902]
Scott M. Scott M. Registered: 03/13/08 Posts: 64 Loc: NYC	I'm a hobbyist but I'm not a big fan of one-trick DVDs and actually buy very few of them. However, I think the reason they are successful is because they are easily marketed. Because they just contain one trick it's easy to be very clear and focused about what's being promoted. I think when creators have clear and distinct personas multi-trick DVDs can work well, but too often the buyer is faced with a magician he/she doesn't know so well and a bunch of effect descriptions that read like too many other sets of effect descriptions.
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#194194 - 05/18/09 08:23 PM Re: Genii Speaks (July, 08) [Re: Scott M.]
Matt Sedlak Matt Sedlak Registered: 04/30/09 Posts: 126	On the one hand I never really enjoyed DVDs other than watching the performances. I prefer to read but that is mainly a preference and I will admit that DVDs have many benefits. The one thing I enjoy about all these one-trick DVDs and instant downloads also runs me into a slightly ethical dilemma. Often these one-trick ponies are advertised with a demo showing a performance of the effect. 9 out of 10 times it is easy enough to figure out the method anyway. Now what? Should I purchase the thing because I figured it out? Not really. But should I be able to perform it because I figured it out? My personal feelings tell me that I should not. If I want to perform it I should pay for it. But it could be a grey area for some. My biggest problem with these things is how often they are just rediscovered material being offered for sale again. I don't think the intentions of the re-creator's are necessarily bad but they just fail to do their homework. Some of the stuff that is in print is pretty buried and even knowledgable people would miss it. But in the rush of trying to get things out I don't think people even check. One of the newer online magic shops has been putting out some downloads recently of essentially rediscovered items from older periodicals/manuscripts. In the process of putting out a book, which takes much more time than an download, it seems more likely the producers would have done more fact checking. Technology will continue to change the way we get information and while some of us may hate the newer methods there really is little we can do about it. But hopefully producers will start to spend more time researching proper credits even though they may feel their customers won't really care.
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#194200 - 05/18/09 09:39 PM Re: Genii Speaks (July, 08) [Re: Matt Sedlak]
Richard Kaufman Richard Kaufman The Chief Genii Registered: 07/18/01 Posts: 12212 Loc: Washington DC	Someone brought up the original Stars of Magic earlier in this thread. I think the original pamphlets, when issued singly, sold for $3 each. That would be about the equivalent of the price of a one-trick DVD today. If I could have the original magicians teaching their tricks from Stars of Magic on DVDS, I would buy an entire set one trick at a time. No question, no problem. And it would be a good deal. However, how many books (and groups of tricks) can we point to of such high quality? Few. Because of the proliferation of one-trick DVDs, books are selling so poorly at the moment that all of my publishing projects are on hold. I'll keep writing and working on them, but at the moment there's no point in putting out a book because of the small numbers in which it will sell. And since most of the books I'm writing are about dead guys anyway, they're not around to make one-trick DVDs of their material.
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#194310 - 05/20/09 06:59 PM Re: Genii Speaks (July, 08) [Re: Richard Kaufman]
Terry Terry Registered: 01/18/08 Posts: 256 Loc: Kentucky	Originally Posted By: Richard Kaufman ...And since most of the books I'm writing are about dead guys anyway, they're not around to make one-trick DVDs of their material. Leave that up to the clowns who'll hold their nose another way, claim the change as an improvement and release a DVD of their "new groundbreaking" work.
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#194332 - 05/20/09 10:07 PM Re: Genii Speaks (July, 08) [Re: Terry]
Randy Naviaux Randy Naviaux Registered: 08/26/08 Posts: 47	"Because of the proliferation of one-trick DVDs, books are selling so poorly at the moment that all of my publishing projects are on hold." Augh!!! Say it ain't so! I've been waiting for the next two Jennings books for years. This will force me to keep practicing effects in the 50 or so books I already own. The injustice of it all. (Maybe you need a trick tester for the galleys?)
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#194333 - 05/20/09 10:11 PM Re: Genii Speaks (July, 08) [Re: Randy Naviaux]
Richard Kaufman Richard Kaufman The Chief Genii Registered: 07/18/01 Posts: 12212 Loc: Washington DC	Maybe I need some more customers who would rather buy a book than a one-trick DVD! Perhaps I should put out one-trick BOOKS. Oh ... that's called a pamphlet. Maybe I should put out $25 pamphlets. Isn't that what Docc Hilford is doing?
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#194336 - 05/20/09 10:15 PM Re: Genii Speaks (July, 08) [Re: Richard Kaufman]
erdnasephile erdnasephile Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 165 Loc: USA	Originally Posted By: Richard Kaufman Because of the proliferation of one-trick DVDs, books are selling so poorly at the moment that all of my publishing projects are on hold. And that encapsulates the real tragedy of the "satisfaction now" attitude of the magiclumpen. After all, why read (or write) a book when you can slap something together that'll sell and be consumed and forgotten like so many potato chips. I'm no Luddite, but the thought of so much of Mr. Jenning's material possibly never seeing the light of day makes me sick to my stomach.
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