Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle

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#186012 - 01/25/09 10:16 AM Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Please do not put the passwords into any open or closed forum. Thanks http://www.mrhypnotist.org/bishbottomdealing.html _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#186016 - 01/25/09 10:51 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Jim Martin Jim Martin Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 208 Loc: St. Louis	Thanks you Glenn - very generous indeed. _________________________ Jim Martin St. Louis MO
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#186091 - 01/26/09 12:45 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Jim Martin]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Your welcome Jim - I hope you get some ideas from it. _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#186693 - 02/02/09 01:15 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Sorry the e-books are no longer at my web site. Thanks again Jim for the kind words. _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#192062 - 04/13/09 03:10 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Here was the "challenge". To take the four aces - put them into different spots in the deck. Shuffle the deck - then by using a riffle shuffle cull and stack three aces "on the fly from the shuffled deck" - cull and stack three aces for a five hand game of draw poker. The aces and the deck are not marked or tricked up in any way. To do this I use the two shuffle Vernon Triumph shuffle that was published in the stars of magic. The first demo is culling and stacking three aces on the fly from a shuffled deck. Then the second demo - I go after "all four aces" on the fly from a shuffled deck. The neat thing for me is that after I put the aces in the deck - I have no idea where they are and I cull them and stack them on the fly - from a shuffled deck. http://www.mrhypnotist.org/video/Glennbishopontheflytriumph.wmv Enjoy! _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#192063 - 04/13/09 03:17 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Jonathan Townsend Jonathan Townsend Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 3786 Loc: Westchester, NY	Ya know, it might be cute to get some volunteers up and deal them in on a game but every time you deal a card to yourself it's one of their cards like a drivers license or such. Figure if you're gonna get unsavory by discussing card games in public you might as well go full throttle and turn it into a pickpocket act. Edited by Jonathan Townsend (04/13/09 03:20 PM) Edit Reason: by the 1980s it was 'cool' to wear a coke vial. Today... not sure what's the taboo to flaunt. Any clues?
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#192073 - 04/13/09 05:22 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Jonathan Townsend]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Hi Jon - I used to do some pickpocket in the old days. Like the watch steal and some other lifts. However I have not done anything with it for quite a few years. Still like card tricks and the legendary moves that are used by the story book and movie style card sharks. Culling and stacking on the fly has been a quest of mine for a long time and I have not found a method as of yet that equals the benefits of using the two shuffle Vernon Triumph shuffle. Just my opinion. _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#192076 - 04/13/09 06:12 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Rod Serling Rod Serling Member Registered: 04/13/09 Posts: 2	There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call "The Twilight Zone".
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#192078 - 04/13/09 06:54 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Rod Serling]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Wow - interesting that on your first post Rod - you found your way - right to this thread. My guess is that you have some sort of an agenda - because this is your first post. _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#192079 - 04/13/09 06:57 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Jonathan Townsend]
Pete McCabe Pete McCabe Registered: 01/18/08 Posts: 1464 Loc: Woodland Hills	Originally Posted By: Jonathan Townsend Ya know, it might be cute to get some volunteers up and deal them in on a game but every time you deal a card to yourself it's one of their cards like a drivers license or such. Or just do a poker deal, and then you "start the betting" by putting up a watch which, it turns out, belongs to one of the spectators.
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#192081 - 04/13/09 07:11 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Pete McCabe]
Jonathan Townsend Jonathan Townsend Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 3786 Loc: Westchester, NY	Pete, doing a poker deal to demonstrate the theme is probably the way to get them wanting to play along and volunteer. There's no need to deal the good hand to the dealer, right? $;\)$
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#192086 - 04/13/09 07:38 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Pete McCabe]
Jeff Haas Jeff Haas Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 123 Loc: San Mateo, CA	Originally Posted By: Pete McCabe Or just do a poker deal, and then you "start the betting" by putting up a watch which, it turns out, belongs to one of the spectators. Paging Bob Farmer...
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#192088 - 04/13/09 07:41 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Jonathan Townsend]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Jon - Did you ever see Jack Pyle work? He worked close up at a table with people all around him. He had a blue table-cloth that he put on the table instead of a close up mat. Then he would start off doing card tricks and then he did poker and bridge deals. The thing about Jack Pyle's act that was so different at the time "was" that he would deal - throw - cards and let one or two people in the audience be his partners and he would deal "them" the winning hand. Plus he would also do several deal's where he would get the winning hand - and have the audience member cut the cards and lose the hand into the deck. The hand that was dealt - was often a royal flush in spades. How Jack got the hand was - when he was ready to do poker deals he would spread the deck face up on the table and say - "Lets play do it yourself poker". Then he would let the helper take out any hand. Often it was a royal flush or the four aces. Then he would do most of the poker routines and this hand was shuffled and cut - the helper cut the cards after every time the hand was put back into the deck and the deck was shuffled. Then he would do a poker deal using the bottom deal - hand switch - or center deal and then he would let his helper get the winning hand. The same hand that was picked out when he said "Do it yourself poker". *The "same hand getting lost in the deck and then the helper getting it again became a running gag.* He would climax the routine with his punch bridge deal. When I am performing - I use some of the same style and I like bringing the audience in - and have them cut the deck after every shuffle - I have watched him do that for years and I think that letting them cut the deck is very strong. However don't confuse want I am telling you about Jack Pyle's performance and me performing with the video's I have posted. The video's I have posted - "are not a performance"! They are just short demo's of "what is possible with the Vernon two shuffle triumph shuffle. Just my opinion. Edited by Glenn Bishop (04/13/09 11:10 PM) _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#192090 - 04/13/09 07:51 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Jonathan Townsend Jonathan Townsend Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 3786 Loc: Westchester, NY	Sorry I did not get to see Jack Pyle perform. What you described reads well as a way to show skill with cards while entertaining.
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#192209 - 04/15/09 09:32 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Jonathan Townsend]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Jack Pyle was great - however often when he performed for magicians he did not go over as strong. Because a lot of magicians did not get what he was doing or why. I have found that magicians don't often understand the card shark magician and their performance. I saw a show and viewed a video tape of a show Jack Pyle and Jimmy Cards Molinari did in a church basement that was a block away from Magic INC. Jay Marshall set up the gig and it was an all afternoon magic social event sponsored by magic Inc. Well - Jack Pyle went over good - but he did not go over as strong for the magicians as Jimmy Cards Molinari did. The reason I think the why - was that Jimmy was doing a lot of cutting edge card work at the time. And Jack was doing the card shark stuff - to a lot of people that did not "play" cards or bridge. Having seen Jack Pyle work in front of "his" audience - people that played cards and bridge - there was a difference in the audience - there are some magicians that want to see magic but found the card shark stuff - just interesting. And that brings me back to my video's. I have to say that they are not a performance. Why? I have been working on this stuff for about 15 years - but some of it is not in my act. In my opinion it is only by doing this in shows almost nightly that a performer gets the "perfection" that they want. I remember a story about Charlie Miller a "Fatherly remembrance" that my Dad told me. He said that Charlie Miller did a show or a lecture in England. Magicians there got excited about seeing his card shark stuff and other card work. When he got there he did the rice bowls - Chinese sticks and his act that he did for the lay audience. The magicians in England were disappointed as the story goes. Well in my dads opinion the reason Charlie Miller did his act instead of the card shark stuff that he did well in session was - the card shark stuff was "not" honed to perfection like his act was. It is only by doing the stuff (in my opinion) in shows over time does this kind of stuff get that professional edge or touch. And in my opinion magicians get "rusty" if they are not working and of course they get old. I have other opinion's as well because I do not think that magic like my video looks good on video. In live shows you can talk to an audience and cover and shade better - than you can with just a camera that is spot on the hands. But just as I said before - it is not about how well I do it in the short video demo's - it is about "what I am doing" and what "is" accomplished with the two shuffle "triumph shuffle"... And the “problems” of over coming the stacking deep issues using a culling and stacking method using the riffle shuffle. Just my opinion. Edited by Glenn Bishop (04/15/09 10:11 AM) _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#192222 - 04/15/09 01:08 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
El Mystico El Mystico Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 504 Loc: Leamington Spa	That's true about Charlie Miller doing the rice bowls etc in his UK lecture. I know of one magician who came down from Scotland for the lecture and cried on the journey back.
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#192224 - 04/15/09 01:12 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: El Mystico]
Jonathan Townsend Jonathan Townsend Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 3786 Loc: Westchester, NY	Would you elaborate on that?
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#192225 - 04/15/09 01:32 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Jonathan Townsend]
El Mystico El Mystico Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 504 Loc: Leamington Spa	er...don't know what info you want! this guy was a young card man. He came hoping to see charlie's card work, but got the rice bowls. This chap had taken time off work, and spent a lot of money on the train fare and was bitterly disappointed.
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#192228 - 04/15/09 02:24 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: El Mystico]
Jonathan Townsend Jonathan Townsend Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 3786 Loc: Westchester, NY	you're saying Charlie Miller lectured and only did the rice bowls?
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#192229 - 04/15/09 02:31 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Jonathan Townsend]
David Alexander David Alexander Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 1405 Loc: Aurora IL	Originally Posted By: Jonathan Townsend you're saying Charlie Miller lectured and only did the rice bowls? Jon, read what Glenn posted above. Quit being deliberately obtuse. Visiting Charlie was always fun. He'd sit dealing cards....tops, bottoms, centers, seconds. If someone asked to "see" his second he'd do some horrible thing and they were disappointed. Charlie would explain that they wanted to "see" his second. Properly done, they wouldn't be able to see anything, so he did it badly do they could see it. I understand he did that with others, too. He was quite a character.
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#192230 - 04/15/09 02:43 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: David Alexander]
Jonathan Townsend Jonathan Townsend Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 3786 Loc: Westchester, NY	Quote: I remember a story about Charlie Miller a "Fatherly remembrance" that my Dad told me. He said that Charlie Miller did a show or a lecture in England. Magicians there got excited about seeing his card shark stuff and other card work. When he got there he did the rice bowls - Chinese sticks and his act that he did for the lay audience. The magicians in England were disappointed as the story goes. Well in my dads opinion the reason Charlie Miller did his act instead of the card shark stuff that he did well in session was - the card shark stuff was "not" honed to perfection like his act was. Quote: Jon, read what Glenn posted above. Quit being deliberately obtuse. Ah, found the former. Kinda sad about the latter - but it's tough to catch all the signal when there's also lots of noise. Perhaps it takes a magician to confuse tolerance with the right to give commands.
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#192320 - 04/16/09 07:23 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Jonathan Townsend]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	In this thread here on the Genii forum http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191918&fpart=3 Nikodemus Siivola said... Finally, because I cannot contain this any longer: A CULL? After the multiple shift there is no need to cull anything, is there? The subject matter was this video... http://www.mrhypnotist.org/video/Glennbishopstriumphcullstack.wmv Although I do agree that a shift like Marlo's simple shift wouldn't be used at the card table. And at the card table like in a show the moves "would be adapted" to the performing situation just as a card shark would adapt their moves to the protocol - rules - of the game and place that they happen to be playing cards in. I used the simple shift to get the aces into the slug - in the video - because I thought at the time that just putting the aces "together" into the deck to make the slug - was a little boring. But in magic here is when I "would do" a cull after a shift. As with Marlo's simple shift there is a key card and the idea is to put the aces into the deck. They end up together next to a key card so the magician can show face cards - and show the aces not on the top - spot the key card - get a break and then control the aces - or selected cards to the top of the deck. I have found that using a cull to do the job - there is no need for a key card. All is needed is to shuffle the deck once after the simple shift once you table the deck. Spot the aces and cull them to the top in one fast move. Also when using other shifts a cull can be used as an out if the shift is blown - or the deck the magician is using is dirty and the cards stick together making the magician miss one or two aces in the shift. The cull can clean up those little performance problems that a magician might have when doing a multiple shift. Just my opinion. Edited by Glenn Bishop (04/16/09 07:26 PM) _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#192409 - 04/18/09 12:28 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: David Alexander]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Originally Posted By: David Alexander Visiting Charlie was always fun. He'd sit dealing cards....tops, bottoms, centers, seconds. If someone asked to "see" his second he'd do some horrible thing and they were disappointed. Charlie would explain that they wanted to "see" his second. Properly done, they wouldn't be able to see anything, so he did it badly do they could see it. I understand he did that with others, too. He was quite a character. I never hand the pleasure or honor of meeting Charlie Miller however I did talk to him on the phone twice - and my Dad met and knew him (A Fatherly Remembrance story). The story goes that Charlie Miller was looking for stand up material and came into and watched my Dad do his night club show in Texas - several times. My Dad was also a student of Erdnase so I think that he and Charlie Miller must have gotten along quite well. However If I may add - most technical magic in cards like second dealing - centers - bottom's have tells. I knew and learned some stuff from Ed Marlo - and his second deal - like all second deals had a tell. I do not say this to say that Ed Marlo did not do his second deal "flawlessly" however in my opinion like may technical moves in card magic - "Flawlessly" is an opinion. And if you watch the Cardician DVD you may spot the tell. As far as my video's My triumph cull stack - was viewed 350 times this month. My Triple duke triumph video - was viewed - 113 times this month. And the new video of me stacking and culling on the fly using the two shuffle Vernon Triumph shuffle was downloaded or viewed 65 times so far this month. However if I may add - I make no claim as to doing the moves "flawlessly" for magicians. However to do them "flawlessly" for magicians - was not the overall goal of putting up the video's in the first place. Just my opinion. Edited by Glenn Bishop (04/18/09 12:30 PM) _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#192410 - 04/18/09 01:04 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Dustin Stinett Dustin Stinett Dark Fascist Overlord Registered: 07/22/01 Posts: 6557 Loc: Southern California	Glenn, The phrase is "fatherly recollection." Dustin
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#192461 - 04/19/09 03:17 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Dustin Stinett]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Sorry Dustin I find this kind of thing rather childish and not worth my time to respond. _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#192524 - 04/20/09 10:20 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Jonathan Townsend Jonathan Townsend Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 3786 Loc: Westchester, NY	To paraphase Jeremy Hillary Boob, PhD: Sisyphus, Syphilis, Freud This False Shuffle we try to avoid When meaning is lost on those we accost Neizche says it all gets destroyed. * The growing pains in our craft are interesting. We all grow older. Growing wiser hurts. I hope those who have just started in our craft get the idea that we are going toward a more scholarly approach and manage to forgive the thrashings of those who conflate nostalgia with relevance and personal meaning with historical value. Can meaning be sanitized for public discourse? Can secrets coexist with scholarly history in publication? Edited by Jonathan Townsend (04/20/09 10:31 AM) Edit Reason: What is the price of knowlege?
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#192538 - 04/20/09 02:45 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Dustin Stinett Dustin Stinett Dark Fascist Overlord Registered: 07/22/01 Posts: 6557 Loc: Southern California	Obviously I need to remind Glenn that he was quoting me from a previous post in a previous thread and since the phrase he meant to quote was "fatherly recollection" (and he used "fatherly remembrance"), I simply was correcting him. There was NO other motivation beyond that. That--I hope--is the end of it. Dustin
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#192725 - 04/23/09 08:03 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Dustin Stinett]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Cugel, Denis Behr, Eoin O'Hare, El Mystico, mrgoat, Silly Walter, Nikodemus Siivola, Dustin Stinett and anyone. In the spirit of good fun - I would “love” to see video of any of you guy’s stacking and culling together on the fly - or stacking and culling four aces from a slug - or stacking and culling from a slug three different hands for a five handed game like I do in my triple duke triumph video - using any kind of table riffle shuffle technique that is not the triumph shuffle as I use in my video. Can you do these three different things as I do in my three video's using some other kind of riffle shuffle technique? Also using an ordinary deck of cards that are not tricked up or marked in any way. If so I would very much like to see that on video. I consider my technique using the triumph shuffle a “breakthrough” because I have never seen as of yet any kind of riffle shuffle technique that has been published in magic a riffle shuffle technique that I can use that I can “do” the above three things that I demonstrate in my video - like I can by using the “triumph shuffle”. I look forward to viewing and learning from your video’s. Thanks in advance. Although I think stacking and culling multiple hands - stacking and culling together on the fly - using a riffle shuffle is harder to do than you might think. Just my opinion. _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#192730 - 04/23/09 10:09 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
mrgoat mrgoat Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 1585 Loc: Brighton, UK	Just my opinion. _________________________ Sussex Magician
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#192734 - 04/23/09 11:05 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: mrgoat]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	If I may add magician's will either have the ability or the "chops" to do what I have demonstrated in my three video's using some other riffle shuffle technique. Or they "DON'T"! Just my opinion! _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#192741 - 04/23/09 01:37 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
mrgoat mrgoat Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 1585 Loc: Brighton, UK	Originally Posted By: Glenn Bishop If I may add magician's will either have the ability or the "chops" to do what I have demonstrated in my three video's using some other riffle shuffle technique. Or they "DON'T"! Just my opinion! OK then Glenn - I'll rise to your bait. Gimme a minute and I will record some stuff for you. Prepare to be fried. _________________________ Sussex Magician
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#192744 - 04/23/09 02:01 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: mrgoat]
mrgoat mrgoat Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 1585 Loc: Brighton, UK	Here you go Glenn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHvGWJIIOZI Just my opinion. _________________________ Sussex Magician
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#192745 - 04/23/09 02:21 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: mrgoat]
Jonathan Miller Jonathan Miller Registered: 03/29/09 Posts: 27	I kinda stopped watching after a minute but then I watched the deal and almost fell out of my chair mrgoat 1 - glennbishop 0
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#192751 - 04/23/09 04:20 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Tom Stone Tom Stone Registered: 01/18/08 Posts: 189 Loc: Stockholm, Sweden	Originally Posted By: Glenn Bishop If I may add magician's will either have the ability or the "chops" to do what I have demonstrated in my three video's using some other riffle shuffle technique. Or they "DON'T"! But what is the effect? _________________________ Magic Ebooks!
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#192764 - 04/23/09 07:59 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Tom Stone]
Richard Kaufman Richard Kaufman The Chief Genii Registered: 07/18/01 Posts: 12975 Loc: Washington DC	The effect is that Mr. Magician, in the guise of a card cheat, can demonstrate his abilities to control cards. Whether or not that's a good thing is open to interpretation. _________________________ Subscribe to Genii today at http://www.geniimagazine.com
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#192765 - 04/23/09 08:38 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Richard Kaufman]
Tom Frame Tom Frame Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 362 Loc: San Francisco	Zing! That's a hoot, Damian. Well played.
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#192767 - 04/23/09 09:38 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Tom Frame]
Roger M. Roger M. Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 317	Todays Headline: "Goat Owns Bishop".
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#192771 - 04/23/09 10:15 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Roger M.]
Jonathan Townsend Jonathan Townsend Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 3786 Loc: Westchester, NY	powns. ownership implies responsibility.
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#192783 - 04/24/09 12:22 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Richard Kaufman]
Tom Stone Tom Stone Registered: 01/18/08 Posts: 189 Loc: Stockholm, Sweden	Originally Posted By: Richard Kaufman The effect is that Mr. Magician, in the guise of a card cheat, can demonstrate his abilities to control cards. That's not an effect. Going by common knowledge, a card cheat is expected to be able to control cards via covert handling. Here, the plot, the actual handling and the audience's preconcieved ideas all coincides to the same thing: "Cards are controlled with secret sleights". That's not an effect - that's the reality! More in the genre of a flourish or a coin roll, than a magic effect. A skill demonstration. But perhaps there is an latent effect here, not yet brought out? If that's the case, then... What is the effect? _________________________ Magic Ebooks!
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#192786 - 04/24/09 01:53 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: mrgoat]
John M. Dale John M. Dale Registered: 01/18/08 Posts: 115 Loc: Santa Clara , CA	Originally Posted By: mrgoat Here you go Glenn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHvGWJIIOZI Just my opinion. Hey, Goaty, I'm glad to see you've not lost the art of snark that I've admired since the a.m.s days watching you slay our Australian "friend." $;\)$ JMD
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#192789 - 04/24/09 02:17 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: John M. Dale]
Pete McCabe Pete McCabe Registered: 01/18/08 Posts: 1464 Loc: Woodland Hills	The effect is that a person painstakingly shuffles several cards into the right positions.
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#192790 - 04/24/09 04:33 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Pete McCabe]
mrgoat mrgoat Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 1585 Loc: Brighton, UK	Originally Posted By: Pete McCabe The effect is that a person painstakingly shuffles several cards into the right positions. Where's the script for that in your bloody book McCabe? How could you miss out something so obvious? I feel disappointed, and although you were kind enough to personally make my copy of your book complete with the missing letter, I now feel let down. Please publish an addendum to the book and release it for free or GIVE ME MY MONEY BACK. Damian _________________________ Sussex Magician
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#192792 - 04/24/09 04:43 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Cugel Cugel Registered: 01/26/08 Posts: 457 Loc: Overworld	Originally Posted By: Glenn Bishop Cugel, Denis Behr, Eoin O'Hare, El Mystico, mrgoat, Silly Walter, Nikodemus Siivola, Dustin Stinett and anyone. In the spirit of good fun - I would “love” to see video of any of you guy’s stacking and culling together on the fly - or stacking and culling four aces from a slug - or stacking and culling from a slug three different hands for a five handed game like I do in my triple duke triumph video - using any kind of table riffle shuffle technique that is not the triumph shuffle as I use in my video. Challenge accepted: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67dcfjhbps0&feature=channel_page
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#192794 - 04/24/09 06:08 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Cugel]
El Mystico El Mystico Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 504 Loc: Leamington Spa	That's lovely Cugel, but - to anticipate Glenn - this is just culling. Glenn is talking about stacking AND culling. (although culling and stacking would probably be a better way round).
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#192795 - 04/24/09 06:33 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: El Mystico]
Cugel Cugel Registered: 01/26/08 Posts: 457 Loc: Overworld	Originally Posted By: El Mystico That's lovely Cugel, but - to anticipate Glenn - this is just culling. Glenn is talking about stacking AND culling. (although culling and stacking would probably be a better way round). Yep, Glenn will likely decry it as not meeting his challenge, but only because he won't comprehend what it is he is seeing.
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#192806 - 04/24/09 08:59 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Cugel]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Originally Posted By: Cugel Originally Posted By: El Mystico That's lovely Cugel, but - to anticipate Glenn - this is just culling. Glenn is talking about stacking AND culling. (although culling and stacking would probably be a better way round). Yep, Glenn will likely decry it as not meeting his challenge, but only because he won't comprehend what it is he is seeing. Sorry Cugel - even when I think the video is nice work it is "not what I am doing" and not even close to the goal that I went after in my three video's. Try culling and stacking four aces from a slug that is not on the top of the deck - then try culling and stacking three different hands of "four of a kind" from a slug that is not on the top or the bottom of the deck. Then try to cull and stack - three or four aces on the fly from a shuffled deck. "And you have no idea where the aces are in the deck". All this I might add without marking or tricking up the deck in any way. Or using a tricked up deck like belly strippers or marking or putting sand work on the aces. Or using a corner short or a short card. I don't think that you can do it as I did in my three video's with any other kind of shuffle work. However I would be happy to be proven wrong. As I said in another thread - the video that you presented is nice - but not even close to what I am accomplishing in my three video's. And mrgoat - your video was a "riot" thanks for such a great laugh!!!! Just my opinion. Edited by Glenn Bishop (04/24/09 09:11 AM) _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#192807 - 04/24/09 09:00 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=188904&fpart=1 Originally Posted By: Jim Maloney Steve has a point. The nastiness displayed on this thread, especially from Chris Aguilar, is unnecessary. You may not be a fan of Glenn's work, but the constant barrage of ugliness displayed toward him is, frankly, somewhat embarrassing. This thread has been running in circles for a while now (some may say down the drain). I'm locking it. -Jim Originally Posted By: Richard Kaufman I'll over rule Jim here for one reason: no one except Glenn Bishop has given the original poster many leads on published methods of Riffle Stacking. Let's remove Glenn Bishop from the picture for a while: Glenn, please don't post in this particular thread anymore. We get your point. Those who think that Glenn's work is crap: don't post in this particular thread anymore. We get your point. As to why the thread has devolved to this point, frankly I think Mr. Bishop's attitude brings out a mean ole' streak in some people and they feel compelled to tell him what they think and it's not a pretty sight (or site!). We're done with that in this thread. Now if someone has something interesting to say about Riffle Stacking, please continue. Jim Maloney and Richard Kaufman came close to nailing it in this above thread. The point is that in my opinion - there are magicians here that “don’t like” ME. So even if I presented the finest technical ability on earth - because the magicians “don’t like me” and in my opinion some may even have some kind of a grudge or a vendetta against me - some in my opinion would still not like and try to find the flaws in my work and in my three video’s. Just because they seem to like to jerk me around and argue about magic. Some of this may go back to when I produced and sold my first DVD with Glenn Bishop Cuts the aces on it and I got much the same comments in blogs and in the Magic Café about my way of doing my slant on the Steven’s cull - one said that it was a pain to watch. And my answer is still - my audience likes it. However in my opinion that does not bug me at all because I “work” for a living and my audience that I charge money for my magician service seem to “love” what I do and I have a track record of success for more than 25 - 35 years. As I remember there were magicians that said comments about Jack Pyle’s second deal and that they could spot it. And as I remember Jack didn’t care and still made a living with it doing his bridge deal. Nate Leipzig said it - or something like it - if they like you they will like your act. And in my opinion if I may add - flawless magic is only an opinion anyway. That is all I have to say - in this thread. Thanks everyone for the laughs and the kind words as I now close the door. Just my opinion. _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#192809 - 04/24/09 09:29 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Jonathan Townsend Jonathan Townsend Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 3786 Loc: Westchester, NY	Perhaps if you stated your objectives Then discussed your strategy for meeting those objectives And then discussed the mertits of that strategy And then offered a simple demonstration as proof of concept More readers could understand what's going on And we could read a better discussion than what's been
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#192810 - 04/24/09 09:42 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Jonathan Townsend]
mrgoat mrgoat Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 1585 Loc: Brighton, UK	Originally Posted By: Jonathan Townsend Perhaps if you stated your objectives Then discussed your strategy for meeting those objectives And then discussed the mertits of that strategy And then offered a simple demonstration as proof of concept More readers could understand what's going on And we could read a better discussion than what's been _________________________ Sussex Magician
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#192818 - 04/24/09 11:57 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: mrgoat]
John M. Dale John M. Dale Registered: 01/18/08 Posts: 115 Loc: Santa Clara , CA	Thanx, Goat. Now I have to clean the coffee off of my monitor. JMD
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#192825 - 04/24/09 01:42 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: John M. Dale]
mrgoat mrgoat Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 1585 Loc: Brighton, UK	Originally Posted By: John M. Dale Thanx, Goat. Now I have to clean the coffee off of my monitor. JMD I am here to serve. $\:\)$ _________________________ Sussex Magician
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#192840 - 04/24/09 06:33 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Cugel Cugel Registered: 01/26/08 Posts: 457 Loc: Overworld	Originally Posted By: Glenn Bishop Sorry Cugel - even when I think the video is nice work it is "not what I am doing" and not even close to the goal that I went after in my three video's. I have a prediction envelope here that has been held in the safe keeping of the manager of Lloyds of London for the past three weeks and which I have not once touched which, if the kind sir will perform his duty and open it now in front of the cameras, you will see contains a paper predicting that Mr.Bishop would react in exactly this manner. Thank you. Thank you very much.
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#192871 - 04/25/09 11:31 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Cugel]
Jonathan Miller Jonathan Miller Registered: 03/29/09 Posts: 27	Is there any chance that Bishop is just like a really good troll? I don't care how big his ego is; NO ONE can think that video he made is actually deceptive..not even the creator. Plus his whole argument about Triumph being the name of the shuffle and not the trick, when anyone who made it past 2nd grade and has a copy of SoM can tell that isn't true. I dunno just seems to me like he wants attention and trolling gets him that.
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#192893 - 04/25/09 04:12 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Jonathan Miller]
Roger M. Roger M. Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 317	According to his latest post at the Cafe, Glenn has left the building. http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=307020&forum=188&24
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#193152 - 04/30/09 09:57 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Roger M.]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Just FYI... This weekend I am printing up a copy and comb binding it of the complete book - Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Shuffle Triumph's. This is my complete work on the triumph shuffle and how to use it to cull - stack - and cull stack cards. As well as my ace cutting routine ideas. And I am sending it with my Punch Cull (deal) DVD (Glenn Bishop Punch Deck Pro) to the Magic Castle Library this next week. I think that important work of this nature - like culling and stacking because the information is so rare - I think that important work like this should be in some of the important magic libraries - like to one at the Magic Castle - so future generations of magicians have good "reference" material. Just my opinion. Later on in the year I will adding one or two chapters to the book. Plus I will be writing my book on the punch deal - culling with the punch and a jog shuffle cull - plus I have plans to do a DVD on the Triumph shuffle. Just FYI _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#193153 - 04/30/09 12:44 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
NCMarsh NCMarsh Registered: 02/16/08 Posts: 350 Loc: Tampa, Florida	"You toot your own horn you make one sound, and it doesn't last long because you run out of breath. If a lot of other people are tooting your horn, it makes a lot of noise and the sound is going to be forever because everyone is doing it." Derrick Brooks _________________________ Tampa Magician
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#193443 - 05/06/09 11:13 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: NCMarsh]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Interesting comment NCMarsh - However Houdini and Scarne were both very good at tooting their own horns and self promotion in my opinion and both of them - and more - I wouldn't say did to bad - self promoting themselves and their performing art and business. Just sent the book Glenn Bishops ace cutting and block transfer shuffle triumph's - and my Glenn Bishop Punch Deck Pro - DVD-4 off to the magic castle library. The most interesting thing in my opinion about the book is that it has a "workable" system of culling and stacking cards on the fly that is not that hard to do - using the triumph shuffle - and it "works". However I am going to re-write the book and add 2 - 4 more chapters because there were quite a few things that I left out - on some added technique and some applications and how the cull can be used in magic. I am one of those magicians that would rather have a comb bound book that I can hold and read rather than an non printable e-book - like the E-book copy (in 7 e-books) that used to be able to be downloaded from my old web site. For me I would rather have a good book than an e-book copy anyday. The cool thing about the punch deal DVD is that it has footage of Jack Pyle doing his bridge deal - Plus I give tips that Jack Pyle gave me on the second deal. And then also once the work is in the deck - it is easy to find and cull the cards to the bottom or run then up in a five card game - for a demo of poker cheating - anytime. I hope a few of the Magic Castle Magicians find the info as interesting and as "useful" as I do. Just my opinion. Edited by Glenn Bishop (05/06/09 11:15 AM) _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#193446 - 05/06/09 11:42 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Jonathan Townsend Jonathan Townsend Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 3786 Loc: Westchester, NY	Is there a term for a Freudian slip involving only punctuation? "disingenuously", Jon Edited by Jonathan Townsend (05/06/09 11:44 AM) Edit Reason: comma, comma, comma chameleon...
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#193483 - 05/06/09 05:10 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Jonathan Townsend]
Adrian Kuiper Adrian Kuiper Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 301 Loc: Port Richey,FL	I once worked with a woman who had that nasty habit of illustrating her quotes with her two hands....a most annoying habit. Jon, your pickup was amazing!! You've earned the right to coin the word. Adrian
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#193486 - 05/06/09 05:26 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Matt Sedlak Matt Sedlak Registered: 04/30/09 Posts: 126	Originally Posted By: Glenn Bishop Interesting comment NCMarsh - However Houdini and Scarne were both very good at tooting their own horns and self promotion in my opinion and both of them - and more - I wouldn't say did to bad - self promoting themselves and their performing art and business. Didn't Mickey MacDougal make way more money than Scarne though? Sometimes when people are too self-promoting it backfires on them.
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#193492 - 05/06/09 08:42 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Matt Sedlak]
NCMarsh NCMarsh Registered: 02/16/08 Posts: 350 Loc: Tampa, Florida	Honestly, Glenn, if you're reading it as "some magicians don't like other magicians that self promote" then you are mis-reading it. You're also, from a marketing perspective, mis-reading your audience. There is a huge difference between what it takes to put butts in the seats of a matinee, and what it takes to build a technical reputation amongst your colleagues and peers. Enthusiasts of technical card magic, like New York restaurant patrons, enjoy being discoverers. They enjoy finding people, techniques, etc. about which others are unaware. Your work is out there for us to see. People are obviously looking at it. If the work is good, it will find an audience -- as has been the case for folks like Bob Stencel, Chuck Smith, Giacomo Bertini, even Vernon and Erdnase. Nathan Edited by NCMarsh (05/06/09 08:50 PM) _________________________ Tampa Magician
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#193500 - 05/06/09 10:21 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: NCMarsh]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Nathan - at this time - and I have no plans - I am not interested in marketing products - books, DVD's to magicians. I am not interested in doing lectures. If I write or do a project - I have only put a few up for sale for a very short time. Then I end it. My book Glenn Bishop's Ace cutting and block transfer shuffle triumph's - the comb bound book - was only available for a short time - I think a month. Then I put it up as a 7 non printable e-book download. Selling magic to magicians really doesn't interest me at all. I also don't want to and I am not interested in being a magicians/magician. However I do work on magic and test the ideas that I come up with - like my punch work and my other work like culling and stacking. And at times I like to write them up and share them - using video, book, PDF, and DVD format. Now some people like what I do and some don't. However at this time and over the next few years - I am not trying to sell anything to you or anyone. Back in the 80's I was a lot better. To keep a long story short over the years - I have had my share of physical problems and have had to deal with what I would call a physical illness. I was physically ill when I performed three shows a night for 7 days at the magic castle several years ago. Mike the host of the Magic Castle and Whit Hayden and several other Castle Members had no idea and I did not tell them. They were also surprised that I did nothing that week except my shows. They kept asking me why I don't get out and see the sights. I just stayed in my hotel room - watched cable TV and did my shows. Mike the host kept coming in the close up gallery and one night he asked me to come out to the bar between shows and have some fun. I did not want to tell him it hurt to get up. I thought my best trick was I did the shows - The audience seemed to like it - Ron Wilson asked me back over the phone - and no one knew - And even with the castle video footage of me doing the cups and balls at my web site - I don't think that anyone could tell. I think my best trick today is that I am still in the game and I love what I do and I am still doing it. Even when I have days when shuffling cards hurts - I still do close up work in restaurants. Well - that is all I have to say. Good luck with your magic... _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#193648 - 05/09/09 11:28 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Here is a bit more FYI on culling and stacking as I remember it for your enjoyment. The last magic lecture that I did any demo on culling was at the Magic Castle. At the time I was doing three shows a night in the close up gallery. Two great card magicians that I sessioned with while I was there that week were Tony Picasso and Rich Cowley. I showed both of them my cutting the aces routine using my slant on the Stevens cull to cold cut the aces one at a time from a shuffled deck. As I remember both Tony Picasso and Rich Cowley really liked the idea at the time. This routine was also on my first DVD that I was selling at the time. And from talking to magicians at the Castle there were not many magicians doing the culling work that I have been - shall we say - playing around with so to speak. In the lecture I just explained the basic work using it to cut the aces from a shuffled deck and did not explain or demo any of the triumph shuffle work and the culling and stacking possibilities using the triumph shuffle. I have to say that the basic work I was doing at the time went over quite well for the Castle lecture audience - even when I think that there are not that many magicians that are really interested in this kind of shuffle work. As a closing note I just re-did my web site to support the few magic lectures that I do - (very few). Because I am to often to busy doing shows to do magic lectures. Well thanks in advance for reading this - good luck with your magic dreams - whatever they might be! Just my opinion. _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#193661 - 05/09/09 06:49 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Matt Sedlak]
Cugel Cugel Registered: 01/26/08 Posts: 457 Loc: Overworld	Originally Posted By: Matt Sedlak Originally Posted By: Glenn Bishop Interesting comment NCMarsh - However Houdini and Scarne were both very good at tooting their own horns and self promotion in my opinion and both of them - and more - I wouldn't say did to bad - self promoting themselves and their performing art and business. Didn't Mickey MacDougal make way more money than Scarne though? Sometimes when people are too self-promoting it backfires on them. I understand MacDougal was a stamp or coin dealer. At least in old age.
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#193665 - 05/09/09 08:55 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Cugel]
Matt Sedlak Matt Sedlak Registered: 04/30/09 Posts: 126	I can't remember where I read it but it was something that stated MacDougal worked more often and made more money than Scarne. That is about all I know though. I'm sure there are others on here who would know more about this though.
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#193674 - 05/10/09 09:37 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Matt Sedlak]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Jay Marshall knew Mickey MacDougall and in the back of Magic Inc he was one of the magicians that I asked Jay about. According to Jay - Mickey did an act for clubs and was a club entertainer. He did the Buda paper's as part of the show giving one at each table and let the audience vanish a small object from their pocket. The people that did the trick were really amazed as the story goes. He also liked and did the Svengali deck a lot. He also lectured on card sharping and told stories - in his lecture that were published in his book "Gamblers don't gamble". He coined a saying that I like - "Every stranger isn't a card sharp but every card sharp is a stranger". His cull is published and was the first cull I ever read on the subject of culling. Most magicians that are into culling that I have met know it or have read about it and I think it was published in his book "Card Mastery". I also think that his book Card Mastery is a hidden gem. I don't know if he made more money than John Scarne. In one of the magic book I have Scarne on cards in the front it talks about Scarne charging a thousand dollars for a lecture or a show. That was quite a bit of money in the 60's and it is still quite a bit of money today. Scarne also took part in the movie the Sting and did some close up work - including his Scarne seconds. I think I remember reading in the 70's in the Vernon Touch that Scarne talked about making over a million dollars. An income that few magicians could boast about. I also think that Vernon said that part of that was due to the Scarne Gaming CO. I think that both of them were great at self promotion. Just my opinion. Edited by Glenn Bishop (05/10/09 09:43 AM) _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#193675 - 05/10/09 10:44 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
David Alexander David Alexander Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 1405 Loc: Aurora IL	Based on the historical record that comes to mind, I believe Scarne made more money than MacDougall. He wrote almost 30 books including two bios, and created a number of games sold through his company, John Scarne Games, Inc. He invented Teeko in the mid-1940s, withdrew it, and re-launched it in the early 1950s. It sold well but, as I understand it, his inventory was wiped out in a warehouse flood, an event he could not recover from. Today, Teeko only lives on in the middle name of John's son, John Teeko Scarne. John was the technical director for The Sting and was also a paid gambling consultant for various casinos. He made a mistake in trying to discredit Ed Thorp's approach to card counting. I believe I remember reading that John's company also created premium games for advertising purposes.
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#193714 - 05/11/09 10:53 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: David Alexander]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Here was the "challenge". To take the four aces - put them into different spots in the deck. Shuffle the deck - then by using a riffle shuffle cull and stack three aces "on the fly from the shuffled deck" - cull and stack three aces for a five hand game of draw poker. The aces and the deck are not marked or tricked up in any way. To do this I use the two shuffle Vernon Triumph shuffle that was published in the stars of magic. The first demo is culling and stacking three aces on the fly from a shuffled deck. Then the second demo - I go after "all four aces" on the fly from a shuffled deck. The neat thing for me is that after I put the aces in the deck - I have no idea where they are and I cull them and stack them on the fly - from a shuffled deck. http://www.mrhypnotist.org/video/Glennbishopontheflytriumph.wmv The added cool thing for me is that with this technique I can take a new or borrowed deck of cards - have the deck shuffled and then cull and stack three or four of a kind using this technique and the "two shuffle Dai Vernon Triumph shuffle. Now I ask again - is anyone going to post some video showing their own technique - something other than the triumph shuffle -doing the "challenge" as I stated in this post? Just asking? _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#193715 - 05/11/09 11:22 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
NCMarsh NCMarsh Registered: 02/16/08 Posts: 350 Loc: Tampa, Florida	Glenn, Which of those conditions was not met by Cugel's video of the Stevens cull? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67dcfjhbps0&feature=channel_page N. _________________________ Tampa Magician
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#193722 - 05/11/09 12:59 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: NCMarsh]
El Mystico El Mystico Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 504 Loc: Leamington Spa	I think the trouble is, most of us would add an additional "challenge" - our art should entertain.
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#193731 - 05/11/09 02:28 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: El Mystico]
NCMarsh NCMarsh Registered: 02/16/08 Posts: 350 Loc: Tampa, Florida	El Mystico, Neither of the clips show performance pieces -- they are technical demos...while technical demos can be entertaining, in the same way that an academic presentation can be entertaining, entertainment has nothing to do with their success...these are tools that are later used to build a performance piece -- and yes, I'm certain that Glenn would agree with you (he's said as much) that entertainment value is critical in the finished whole that goes in front of the audience N. _________________________ Tampa Magician
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#193732 - 05/11/09 02:44 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: NCMarsh]
Matt Sedlak Matt Sedlak Registered: 04/30/09 Posts: 126	Wait...WAIT! How did this thread get necro'd?? Won't someone let it rest in peace? Please??
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#193733 - 05/11/09 02:57 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Matt Sedlak]
Jonathan Townsend Jonathan Townsend Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 3786 Loc: Westchester, NY	The challenge is to find a good card hand among the discards as you gather them and stack it so you can deal yourself or your pigeon a winner - for a suitably large payoff - perhaps while some are edgy about the money at stake. For anything less, like entertaining, you might as well just do a halfa$$ed deck switch and wave a lucky poker chip over the pack as you get a volunteer to deal the hands. Likely a triumph of presentation over shufflefutzing for most who want to do magic.
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#193735 - 05/11/09 03:34 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: NCMarsh]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Originally Posted By: NCMarsh Glenn, Which of those conditions was not met by Cugel's video of the Stevens cull? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67dcfjhbps0&feature=channel_page N. In his video he is "not stacking the three or four aces" after the cull for a five handed game of poker. Cugel's video is a cutting to the aces video. First he does what looks like a false shuffle and a few cuts and produces the aces all at the same time. Then he puts them into the deck and then culls them and produces them again using a cutting to the aces technique. It is very nice however he doesn't free shuffle the deck or shuffle the deck after the aces are put back into the deck. This shuffling of the deck or what I call the free shuffle is me really shuffling the deck - no tricks. I am doing it in the video but if I was doing a show - the audience would be shuffling the deck at that point. When I free shuffle the deck in my video - the deck is shuffled and I have no idea where the aces are in the deck at that point. If you place the aces into four different parts of the deck - and then cull them without a free shuffle or the audience shuffling the deck - if the aces are just put into four different parts of the deck the magician should have a general idea where the aces are - and they are easy to cull - often two at a time - when you have a good idea where in the deck the aces are. In my video I put them in - free shuffle - I have no idea where the aces are - then each ace I cull and stack one at a time for a five handed game of poker. As I said many times as each ace is culled and stacked the aces go deeper into the deck. As each ace is culled - then stacked four cards are added on top of each ace. So as the aces go deeper into the deck the problem of stacking "with" culling at the same time is - that as the aces go deeper into the deck - because it is a riffle shuffle and the two halves are riffled together - the stack can be blown. Because the magician has the problem of shuffling cards into the stacked part of the deck when they are culling and stacking the next ace - for the five handed game of poker. Add more players or more hands like several hands and this becomes more of a problem. And if I may add - using a cull for a cull cutting to the aces routine. One of the great things about being able to cull and then cut to an ace in my opinion "is" the aces can be lost in the deck - then the deck shuffled by an spectator. And then the magician cuts to them - one at a time. The thing that I liked so much about Glenn Bishop cuts the aces (on my first DVD and published in my Triumph book) is that in a show I let the helper from the audience shuffle the deck between ace cuts - in a way like Scarne did in Scarne's aces and then I cut to an ace - after the deck was shuffled by a helper from the audience. This to me is the strong point in the trick and opens the door for a lot of situation comedy from the helper that shuffles the deck. I would imagine that Scarne used that when he did or if he did Scarne's aces - I would imagine that he got a lot of humor and entertainment out of his helper shuffling the deck and then cut to a card - then Scarne cut deeper and got an ace. In Cugel's video he cuts to the aces and produces them together -When he starts I would guess the aces were on the top of the deck he seems to do a false shuffle and then some cuts - then he produces the aces in a cutting display. Then he puts them into the deck and culls them - after one shuffle attempt and a face up spread he again shuffles then cuts to the aces - produces them all at the same time. His video is nice - but not the goal of taking a real deck - no marks no gimmicks - putting the aces in - shuffling the deck and then having no idea where the aces are - then culling and stacking them on the fly - for a five handed game of poker. I hope that answers your question. If I may add - I have played around with culling the four aces to the top or the bottom of the deck on the fly and then after they are on the top or the bottom - stacking them for a five handed game of poker with a riffle shuffle. But that to me is not practical - when it is a lot easier just to cull to the bottom and then bottom deal as I would most likely do in a performance in front of a live audience. And that brings me to the point I made about the punch cull - and that is that once the work is in it is an easy matter to cull a hand to the bottom and then bottom deal - for a demonstration . Just my opinion. Edited by Glenn Bishop (05/11/09 04:05 PM) _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#193737 - 05/11/09 03:41 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: NCMarsh]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Originally Posted By: NCMarsh El Mystico, Neither of the clips show performance pieces -- they are technical demos...while technical demos can be entertaining, in the same way that an academic presentation can be entertaining, entertainment has nothing to do with their success...these are tools that are later used to build a performance piece -- and yes, I'm certain that Glenn would agree with you (he's said as much) that entertainment value is critical in the finished whole that goes in front of the audience N. Yes I do agree - right on! _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#193738 - 05/11/09 04:29 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Matt Sedlak]
Rod Serling Rod Serling Member Registered: 04/13/09 Posts: 2	Originally Posted By: Matt Sedlak Wait...WAIT! How did this thread get necro'd?? Won't someone let it rest in peace? Please?? You're travelling through another dimension. A dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. That's a signpost up ahead: your next stop: the Twilight Zone!
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#193755 - 05/11/09 11:28 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Rod Serling]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Well Rod and Matt if your not interested in seeing if anyone can post video under the challenge conditions that I did - doing the same goal - using another culling and stacking method other than the two shuffle triumph shuffle - I suggest you don't tune in. However I am very interested if anyone can stack and cull three or four aces on the fly under the challenge conditions of using a real non gimmicked deck - not marked or stripped. No short cards or corner shorts. Just take the four aces - put them in different parts of the deck - Shuffle the deck with three real shuffles and they have no idea where the aces are in the deck - then cull and stack the three or four aces on the fly as I do in my video - for a five handed game of poker. I would be very interested if anyone could do that using another technique other than the triumph shuffle - however at this time - from the look at this and other threads - in my opinion it appears that no one seems to be up to the challenge. Just my opinion. _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#193767 - 05/12/09 08:26 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: NCMarsh]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Originally Posted By: NCMarsh Glenn, Which of those conditions was not met by Cugel's video of the Stevens cull? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67dcfjhbps0&feature=channel_page N. In the video it looks like a cutting to the aces as the aces are produced together -When it starts I would guess the aces were on the top of the deck what looks like a false shuffle and then some cuts - then the aces are produced a cutting display. Then the aces look like they are put into different parts of the deck and what is suggested as to happen it appears that they are culled using the Stevens cull. After one shuffle attempt and a face up spread look real close and it appears that a left pinky break is taken after the spread. Then by using the pause play feature spot the shift as one ace is most likely shifted to the top of the deck. So my guess is that one of the aces is shifted to the top. At the point the shift is done the hands seem to go almost go out of camera shot. Then after the shift the deck is cut into two piles both piles spread face down and then riffle shuffled. Then lots of cuts and I think a table Hindu shuffle. Then the cuts to the aces - produces them all at the same time. The video is nice - but not the goal of taking a real deck - no marks no gimmicks - putting the aces in - shuffling the deck and then having no idea where the aces are - then culling and stacking them on the fly - for a five handed game of poker. As I said before the video is very nice but also in my opinion very different than what I am doing in my video. I hope that answers your question. Just my opinion. _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#193770 - 05/12/09 09:33 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Kent Gunn Kent Gunn Registered: 05/15/08 Posts: 276 Loc: Bay Area, California	Glenn, I could never figure out how to turn this sort of shuffle-mania into a card trick. You know, beginning, middle and end. Perhaps a modicum of drama, a dash of humor. This is the only thing I can do that comes close to your challenge conditions. I cannot see the use in working this stuff up except as self-congratulatory, who's got the biggest shuffle nonsense. The only clip I've seen on this thread with any panache belongs to Cugel. It's supposed to be about magic and entertainment. This clip is neither. I'm going to go work on some stuff that doesn't use playing cards. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czqSnGDAEGM Edited by Kent Gunn (05/12/09 09:59 AM) Edit Reason: Rant addition
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#193776 - 05/12/09 11:05 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Kent Gunn]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Hey Kent - thanks for posting and I liked the video very much. One or two points that I want to make that makes my video very different. I put the four aces into the deck and then I free shuffle the deck three times in the first demo and twice in the second demo in my video. At the point of me free shuffling the deck I have no idea where the aces are in the deck. This is the point of culling (and then stacking) on the fly that is to me very important and very different than the fine technique that you just did in your video. *The free shuffle is a real shuffle and if I were doing this for an audience I would give an audience member the opportunity to shuffle and cut the deck as much as they want.* Then after the deck is mixed and I have no idea where the aces are in the deck I cull them on the fly and stack them. That is basically what I am doing. One of the routines I published some time ago was something with my triumph stack. That is that I placed the aces into a fan - counted the cards between each ace - say five cards or seven cards between each ace - then bring the top ace to the top with the aces with four or seven cards between them (or whatever amount of hands you are using for the demo) and then add four or six cards on top of that top ace (that is on the top of the deck with the other three aces below with the five of seven cards that were stacked in the fan when I placed the aces in the deck). Of course if I were to add some false cuts and shuffles to it makes it look like the performer is doing the work. What I described above is an interesting cull stack and cuts down on the shuffles but it is not cull stacking on the fly after the deck is free shuffled - or shuffled by an audience member and the performer really doesn't have any idea where the aces are in the deck. And yes I can use my technique to stack and cull with seven players - and even let an audience member call the hand that they want to get the aces - and use a slant on the technique to cull and stack even 5 players and three hands four of a kind - but this would be culling and stacking from a slug rather than culling and stacking on the fly. Again I liked your video but in my opinion it is very different just because I free shuffle the deck and could have the audience shuffle the deck as much as they want - and then I cull and stack on the fly having no idea where the aces are in the deck. Just my opinion. _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#193779 - 05/12/09 11:14 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Kent Gunn]
mrgoat mrgoat Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 1585 Loc: Brighton, UK	Originally Posted By: Kent Gunn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czqSnGDAEGM Nice clip Mr Gunn. Two things adressed. a) you made it entertaining (albeit mainly to people who have read this thread) b) you added drama by 'missing' on the third, this added excellent tension for the 4th and 5th cards Of course, Glenn has now altered his challenge conditions to mean you can't count that video as there was no free shuffle. I am utterly surprised by Bishop's change of the rules on this... Thing that really gets my goat (ha ha) is that I know lots of card men that could easily meet this challenge, but clearly they have better things to do with their lives that argue with Mr Bishop on the internet. (Like practising their culing). I wish someone like Tony Picasso would just post a clip to shut him up though. Just my opinion. Damian Edited by mrgoat (05/12/09 11:17 AM) _________________________ Sussex Magician
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#193782 - 05/12/09 11:23 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: mrgoat]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Originally Posted By: mrgoat Originally Posted By: Kent Gunn http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czqSnGDAEGM Nice clip Mr Gunn. Two things adressed. a) you made it entertaining (albeit mainly to people who have read this thread) b) you added drama by 'missing' on the third, this added excellent tension for the 4th and 5th cards Of course, Glenn has now altered his challenge conditions to mean you can't count that video as there was no free shuffle. I am utterly surprised by this change. Just my opinion. Damian Sorry young man I do not agree here is the challange that is at the top of the page - Here was the "challenge". To take the four aces - put them into different spots in the deck. Shuffle the deck - then by using a riffle shuffle cull and stack three aces "on the fly from the shuffled deck" - cull and stack three aces for a five hand game of draw poker. The aces and the deck are not marked or tricked up in any way. To do this I use the two shuffle Vernon Triumph shuffle that was published in the stars of magic. The first demo is culling and stacking three aces on the fly from a shuffled deck. Then the second demo - I go after "all four aces" on the fly from a shuffled deck. The neat thing for me is that after I put the aces in the deck - I have no idea where they are and I cull them and stack them on the fly - from a shuffled deck. http://www.mrhypnotist.org/video/Glennbishopontheflytriumph.wmv Enjoy! ........................................................ Please note the bold after I wrote “put the aces into different parts of the deck” and "shuffle the deck". What I am saying at that point is to "really shuffle the deck". Why? Because then the performer has no idea where the aces are in the deck - after the deck has been shuffled and that is what makes culling on the fly - different than culling from a slug in my opinion. So I did not change the conditions after all!!! Just my opinion. _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#193784 - 05/12/09 11:34 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
mrgoat mrgoat Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 1585 Loc: Brighton, UK	Originally Posted By: Glenn Bishop [quote=mrgoat][ Please note the bold after I wrote “put the aces into different parts of the deck” and "shuffle the deck". What I am saying at that point is to "really shuffle the deck". So I did not change the conditions after all!!! Just my opinion. It's your opinion that adding a condition of a "free shuffle" isn't changing the conditions you originally posted. It is my opinion that this alters the challenge significantly. It's also my opinion that whatever video anyone posts will somehow mysteriously not meet your conditions. Glenn, we ALL know there are many card guys that could do just what you are asking for. So, it's all really a bit pointless. Like this thread. Just my opinion. _________________________ Sussex Magician
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#193785 - 05/12/09 11:46 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: mrgoat]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Originally Posted By: mrgoat Originally Posted By: Glenn Bishop [quote=mrgoat][ Please note the bold after I wrote “put the aces into different parts of the deck” and "shuffle the deck". What I am saying at that point is to "really shuffle the deck". So I did not change the conditions after all!!! Just my opinion. It's your opinion that adding a condition of a "free shuffle" isn't changing the conditions you originally posted. It is my opinion that this alters the challenge significantly. It's also my opinion that whatever video anyone posts will somehow mysteriously not meet your conditions. Glenn, we ALL know there are many card guys that could do just what you are asking for. So, it's all really a bit pointless. Like this thread. Just my opinion. Sorry young man - I am not adding conditions - I see clearly that it reads shuffle the deck - after the aces are put into the deck. And before culling and stacking them "on the fly". But if you are in the mood to argue? Just my opinion. Edited by Glenn Bishop (05/12/09 11:48 AM) _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#193786 - 05/12/09 11:50 AM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
mrgoat mrgoat Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 1585 Loc: Brighton, UK	Originally Posted By: Glenn Bishop [ Sorry young man - I am not adding conditions - I see clearly that it reads shuffle the deck - after the aces are put into the deck. But if you are in the mood to argue? Just my opinion. If you cannot see that detailing if a shuffle is 'free' or not in a challenge about doing false shuffles is important, then fair play to you. As an aside, do you honestly think that a man we both know, like Tony PIcasso, couldn't do what you are asking for? Genuinely curious as to whether you are simply trolling or you really believe there isn't a card guy in the world who can meet your challenge. Edited by mrgoat (05/12/09 11:56 AM) _________________________ Sussex Magician
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#193789 - 05/12/09 12:00 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: mrgoat]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Originally Posted By: mrgoat Originally Posted By: Glenn Bishop [ Sorry young man - I am not adding conditions - I see clearly that it reads shuffle the deck - after the aces are put into the deck. But if you are in the mood to argue? Just my opinion. If you cannot see that detailing if a shuffle is 'free' or not in a challenge about doing false shuffles is important, then fair play to you. As an aside, do you honestly think that a man we both know, like Tony PIcasso, couldn't do what you are asking for? Genuinely curious as to whether you are simply trolling or or you really believe there isn't a card guy in the world who can meet your challenge. Oh yes I do think that there are magicians and card men that can do this challenge that I undertook using my slant on the two shuffle triumph shuffle. And use a different method. I think that it would be very nice to see video of it. If I may add one or two opinions - The reason I like the triumph shuffle for culling and stacking is that for me - it simplifies the work. So in performance I would rather use an easier - less top heavy method - if it works that is - than a harder method - for me that is. The second opinion is that I think the triumph shuffle is a great shuffle that has fallen by the wayside in magic. My point of the video is only to show that the triumph shuffle "can" be used to do these things. I make no claim that it is "better" only different. I choose to use it and others in magic may choose a different way. Just my opinion. _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#193790 - 05/12/09 12:24 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
mrgoat mrgoat Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 1585 Loc: Brighton, UK	Originally Posted By: Glenn Bishop Oh yes I do think that there are magicians and card men that can do this challenge Good. Thread closed then. $;\)$ Edited by mrgoat (05/12/09 12:28 PM) _________________________ Sussex Magician
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#193796 - 05/12/09 02:50 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: mrgoat]
Glenn Bishop Glenn Bishop Registered: 03/14/08 Posts: 513	Sorry young man - not worth my time to respond - funny they tried to call me a troll. Just my opinion. _________________________ Bish The Magish The Magish Newsletter!
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#193797 - 05/12/09 03:07 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Glenn Bishop]
Jonathan Townsend Jonathan Townsend Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 3786 Loc: Westchester, NY	If the item in The Stars of Magic is watered down, where specifically, is the work on his False Shuffle published?
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#193803 - 05/12/09 05:32 PM Re: Riffle Shuffle Work Using The Triumph Shuffle [Re: Jonathan Townsend]
Matt Sedlak Matt Sedlak Registered: 04/30/09 Posts: 126	If the Aces are placed into the deck in random places and lost anyway a shuffle following it is redundant. They are already lost so what are you doing? Losing them further? Glenn I have a challenge for you. Why don't YOU do a video that meets your challenge but also is deceptive. Also you can't just put the Aces into the deck..do a multiple shift..then shuffle the deck and think we are all stupid enough to think you don't have control over the aces. I know that you can't and you will post some silly reply as to why you won't but I'm bored and eating dinner so I need the entertainment!
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