I hereby put my hand up and predict they won't sell all the tickets or all the dealer space.

Incidentally go to http://magicweek.co.uk and you can read about the forthcoming Blackpool convention, the McMillan International convention and enter a free draw for the Tommy Cooper book (five copies to be won), plus lots of other news from the UK.

PS. I'd be very surprised if there were even 100 dealers at FISM. It is not (in my limited experience) that type of convention.

Perhaps "systems" and "experience" would be better words.

I'm assuming that FISM have a set criteria manual for how the conference is handled and put together - basically a blueprint.

Now if you are having a six bedroom house built and have the architect's plans, who do you think - at least on the face of it - will build the better house, the builder who does extensions or the one who has already built 50 six bedroom houses?

Both will be working from exactly the same plans and both should have the necessary ability to complete the job. Does it guarantee the builder with the experience will do a better job. No it doesn't, but if it came down to it, and it's your money, which would you hire?

That makes more sense.

They weren't better words..............you just understood them better.

A system is a composite of structures while experience is the study of, knowledge of or prior working with such structures within a system.

In Quentin's reply the correct word was structures.

Perhaps any words people don't understand they might "Google" and thus save on explanations.

Cheers,
John Bowden

My tuppence worth on Blackpool, the Blackpool Convention and FISM.

What do I think about Blackpool? - it's a hole, of that there is no doubt.

Do I attend the annual Blackpool Convention? - yes I do and I enjoy it immensely.

Would I like to attend a FISM? - absolutely.

Do I intend registering for FISM 2012? - absolutely not, there is no way I would consider visiting Blackpool at that time of the year. Looks like I'll have to wait for the next one.

Cheers

Andrew

Mr. Lever has responded to many of the accusations which have been made against him and Blackpool with regards to FISM 2012. READ MORE

Andrew, I like your frankness and honesty regarding your opinion on Blackpool, its Conventions and FISM 2012.

Like you I visit Blackpool every February, hail, rain or snow and sometimes all three, and I too enjoy a first rate convention at a price that is unbelievable value. No one has argued against that.

I'll most certainly attend FISM 2012 in Blackpool as I would no matter where in Europe it was being held.

Some people have a problem with the difference between the prices charged for the regular Convention and the FISM 2012 Convention.

They are two different products.

I have no doubt that the Blackpool Magician Club will provide excellent value for the FISM 2012 Convention as they do for their own Annual Convention and thereby justify the price differential.

Others on this Forum have expressed a worry about accommodation prices. Again this is just a red herring as Blackpool is known for its reasonable rates throughout the year and prices vary very little.

Another worry expressed in this thread is that Blackpool is shabby and run down, or words to that effect. Now lets be fair here..................most of us, who have a knowledge of Blackpool, have only ever visited there during the depressing month of February when about ten percent of hotels, actually B & B for the greater part, are open to the public for business. Any shut and boarded town will look bad under these conditions.

July 2012, everywhere should be painted, fresh and inviting, totally different from winter.

What surprise me most is that there are some British magicians who for reasons beyond me are unwilling to row in behind Blackpool in trying to make this FISM 2012 one that they can be proud of. Fact is that FISM 2012 is in Blackpool, not London, not Manchester but Blackpool so I say to British magicians at least try and help make it a success and if for some reason, envy, resentment or jealousy, don't be part of a problem for Blackpool or be used by those with a hidden agenda.

Any of the Irish magicians I have spoken to, with few exceptions, are looking forward to FISM 2012 in Blackpool but it would be nice to see some pride by British magicians and faith in their own ability to host such an event.

My apologies for such a long posting but there has been so much negativity that I thought it might be good to stand up and be counted as an unashamed supporter of Blackpool and FISM2012 and I wish them every success with the huge task they have undertaken.

Cheers from Ireland
John Bowden

All right -- what is fly pitching?

Selling stuff "on the fly"
eg attending a convention and acting as a dealer
without paying for the right to do so.

We call them "bedroom dealers" in the US because they sell from their hotel rooms.

"Bedroom Dealers"..........you mean they don't sell bedrooms?

Dammit I've been duped again.

Guess I don't own those two bedrooms in the NY Hilton after all.

JB

I'm thrilled that Derek has cleared things up for the forums with his statement on Magic Bunny.

But when he said "There are only about 7 people who are banned from Blackpool and these are for serious reasons such as shoplifting, abusive behaviour/drunkenness, obscenity and fly pitching."

It does seem to contrast with the initial post of this thread, written to Craig Mitchell:

"Dear Sir

After reading your various postings over the last few years it is quite obvious you intensely dislike Blackpool, Blackpool Magicians' Convention, Blackpool Magicians' Club and F.I.S.M. Blackpool.

Your pathetic rantings have evoked a great deal of anger both within and outside the magic fraternity and it is quite apparent that our security staff would not be able to guarantee your safety at the 2010 Blackpool Convention. We have today
refunded the £90.,00 charged to your credit card and must advise you that the tickets sent to you are no longer valid. You are henceforth persona non grata and no longer welcome at Blackpool Magicians' Convention.

Derek Lever
Convention Organiser
Blackpool Magicians Club "



So has the "ban" on Craig been lifted?

Regarding Paul Daniels, Derek has cleared that up too saying "Despite press headlines I did not say that Paul Daniels was banned. I said that we had not invited him for the past 15 years and we did not intend to invite him for 2012. If he wants to come and buys a registration he is quite welcome."

The newspaper had quoted Derek saying ""He is not welcome in Blackpool and we will not be inviting him. We don't want him in Blackpool, he is a has-been."

I assume the newspaper misquoted Derek, and Paul will be made welcome at Blackpool as long as he buys a registration.


Good to finally hear from Derek and this is all being finally sorted out.

Somehow I don't think Paul will be going to Blackpool anytime soon. Just a guess.

As for the "7" who have been banned ...
"The Magnificent Seven"?
"The Seven Deadly Sins"?

Take your pick.

Fair enough. Though it makes me wonder how high a percentage of FISM attendees would be in the loop of such things. (Not that it matters for this discussion, but having never been to a FISM I really have no idea what demographic it pulls from.)

The Seven Faces Of Dr. Lao(Lever)

the seven Brady kids - after Oliver joined the family.

Seven Names You Can Never Say in Blackpool

is that a setup for a george carlin routine?

Richard "Somehow I don't think Paul will be going to Blackpool anytime soon. Just a guess."

Well as long as someone lets him know, he IS welcome!

Even Conservative Party members get banned from their own conference:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/8297072.stm

Dodd posted the link to Mr Lever's response - but let's specifically extract 2 key sections:

"* Blackpool Convention and F.IS.M. Convention are separate events.
* People banned from Blackpool will not automatically be banned from F.I.S.M. There are only about 7 people who are banned from Blackpool and these are for serious reasons such as shoplifting, abusive behaviour/drunkenness, obscenity and fly pitching.Colin Richardson was banned (since lifted) not because he was running a convention but because he posted a Carl De Rome e.mail on their forum saying that all Blackpool Magicians Club competitions were fixed. Colin refused to delete it and only removed it after receiving a letter from my solicitor. Nobody has been banned because of personal differences.Despite press headlines I did not say that Paul Daniels was banned. I said that we had not invited him for the past 15 years and we did not intend to invite him for 2012. If he wants to come and buys a registration he is quite welcome."

-----------

Mr Lever is not being truthful.

**"There are only about 7 people who are banned from Blackpool"

Not so.

"You, ***, ***, all staff and business associates of yours are all banned from attending the Convention"

The family, staff & employees of just this one person are well more than seven.It is possible that so many people have been banned that Mr Lever has lost track … but I am fairly certain tha all the family members, staff and business associates have not all been drunk, shoplifting or obscene.

"...these are for serious reasons such as shoplifting, abusive behaviour/drunkenness, obscenity and fly pitching."

Serious reasons also include publishing a contrary opinion on The Genii Forum / Magic Newswire ... despite the statement "Nobody has been banned because of personal differences."

**"Colin Richardson was banned (since lifted)"

Not so. Colin's ban will only be lifted if he complies with certain conditions ( which if he chooses to make them public are onerous )

"If he ( Paul Daniels ) wants to come and buys a registration he is quite welcome."

Mr Lever stated: "He is not welcome in Blackpool ..." "We don't want him in Blackpool, he is a has-been."

I do believe the record speaks for itself - and no amount of spin can erase the truth.

Have you tried to resubmit your registration for 2010 Craig? You may be in for a surprise!

As an introduction, the quotes taken from Derek where replies to emails from and to me, not posts Derek made on Magic Bunny.

I will post the emails below. The first one I sent in March, the rest being recieved/sent in the last couple of days.

I guess that I got fed up of Carl De Rome calling me Hitler, being in Derek Levers pocket, licking Derek Levers ass and other abuse. ( He doesn't confine name calling or allegations to Derek. )

While trying to do what others that are actually involved with this, yet seem to prefer to comment on forums, blogs and such, I leave it to all ACTUALLY CONCERNED, to see if they will act like grown ups and TALK LIKE ADULTS, or hurl insults, while bringing the reputation of magic and magicians down.

Darrel,

You've done well.

But don't assume people who are writing in the forums have not attempted to get the real story from Derek and the others concerned.

While at FISM Bejing, Derek told Sue-Anne and I we had an open invitation to Blackpool and he wanted to have us as guest performers at FISM 2012, so I assume we have a fairly good relationship with him.

Over the last few weeks I've also been emailing Derek, and Arthur Casson, with no response.

So once again well done for getting the lines of communication open.

Thanks Tim.

Maybe it just needed somebody who was also getting grief, yet wasn't involved as such, to get things started. In magic, I am a nobody, so haven't the ego or reputation in this to lose.

Your comment about the lines of communication give me hope that SOME issues will be sorted.

Darrel.

Maybe you can find out about the FISM World Children's Entertainer Competition announced for 2010. We have some members who'd love to enter but no-one at Blackpool is responding to our enquiries.

Nicely patronising Bowden, like your style.

Mr Goat,

Couldn't resist.......................please don't leave me those opportunities as I am a complete and utter b**l**ks.

Glad to see you took it in a humourous spirit and I look forward to meeting you sometime...................maybe in Blackpool next February or will I have to wait until FISM 2012?.


Cheers,
John Bowden

Bet you will monitor my posts carefully for justly deserved revenge.

Found yet another trailer for FISM 2012:
http://img94.imageshack.us/i/fismtrailer.mp4/

Quote from Derek Lever: "Colin Richardson was banned (since lifted) not because he was running a convention but because he posted a Carl De Rome e.mail on their forum saying that all Blackpool Magicians Club competitions were fixed. Colin refused to delete it and only removed it after receiving a letter from my solicitor."

I must thank here and now Quentin Reynolds for putting Mark Lewis right on all the false accusations that were made against me, and pointing out as he did to Mark that he had made a big mistake and that I could not have been this Kevin person refered to, so Thank you Quentin it really was appreciated.

I have been back onto my web site page about Derek Lever, http://www.cdrmagic.com/info.htm to view again and to clarify 100% what I actually did state in writing in BOTH of my letters that were posted by Colin Richardson, and included on the SEMC web site forum page that seemed to start this debate off such a long time ago. And NOWHERE AT ALL IS THERE ANY MENTION ANYWHERE IN EITHER OF MY POSTS, that I have stated or even hinted that any competition in Blackpool Magicians Club was ever fixed.

Colin at this moment is very sick and I am awaiting his full recovery, hoping he will make a post on the above accusations himself to clarify certain matters, and just maybe soon to let others know the special conditions Derek Lever is demanding of him so he is taken off the banned list and allowed to attend Blackpool again in the future. I do know, but I will leave it to Colin to make his own post in his own good time on these demands if he so chooses to.

Lastly I have had many E mails from people thinking I am the person going by the name of bobworld2009 who posted these 2 hilarious and utterly brilliant videos most of you with a sense of humour have been raving about for the past few weeks,
Very sorry to disappoint you all. But I can assure you that I am not the person behind them. You will realise IF it was me I would have used my name on them both, as I do with ALL my posts on any forums web site. But to bobworld2009 who ever you are, I owe you 2 good stiff drinks if and when we meet, and I await your next instalment with eager anticipation along with the rest of us worldwide addicts.

Nice to be back on the Genii again, the month has flown past.
Carl de Rome

Carl, I am glad that I was able to put at least one of the many false accusations made on this forum to rest. It's surprising just how many are prepared to accept unsubstantiated allegations and opinions as proven fact.

To quote Kevin Myers: "It is a cruel but undeniable truth: virtuous reality never delights a half-friend quite so much as malevolent fiction."

I am one of the people who had an issue with Derek Lever. Since posting on this and other forums Derek has contacted me, and his response to my issue has been very gracious. There are no longer any issues between myself and Derek Lever, and I apologise to him for the sort of inflamatory language I used in my earlier posts.
I am genuinely surprised and delighted that the issue was resolved so swiftly, once contact was established between myself and Derek.
Whether or not I go to FISM ($600 registration!) I am looking forward to attending the Blackpool convention again. Tony Galvin.

I guess the problem stems from when there are some proven factual 'bad' behaviour from Lever and then online silence.

If he did bad once, it seems a fair assumption he would again.

And then, for him to be well aware of this thread and others, to remain silent does him and FISM no favours.

Still at least on places like the Bunny he can just call Shelton to get the thread removed, something he can't do here.

I reckon a bit of online and offline PR training may be needed. Especially after the Lever/Daniels debacle.

MR GOAT

well said in your last post,
I could not have put it any better myself,
But im sure glad you said it instead of me.

It would be decent if this is at all possible, if the Magic Bunny at last had the guts to reinstate all the posts from that thread that seemed to do a nice vanishing act so convieniently,
or as we all suspect, but can not prove, maybe by someones special request, maybe it was not a request but a demand, No names will be mentioned. its not needed

The Magic Bunny could have just deleated those last posts that someone deliberatly resurected from my past letters, knowing full well that I would not be allowed to reply or respond to anything ever on there MBs forum pages,
and also knowing full well that by posting ANY of my old mails on the MB, That the big boss of the fluffy tail would close the whole thread down and take everything away just as he did. and by doing this he would be keep a certain person very happy indeed.

But then to have the audasity to try and fob us all off, with such a feeble and crap excuse as he gave,
Does the boss of the MB think we were all born yesterday.
what he did with this thread, there was NO excuse for, and I hope he is ashamed of himself, but this I very much doubt.

Thank god for forums like the genii, at least things get said, and EVERYONE has the right to reply to any accusations,
its just a hell of a shame that some people choose deliberatly to keep silent and never reply,

Carl de Rome

They won't do any of that. ALL of the UK forums are looking like they are Lever's bitch. They are too scared to be banned from Blackpool. I just thank the stars that we have this forum that is run not in Lever's pocket!

He also seemingly has minions that spam the other forums saying Lever is in fact BRILLIANT, and that Blackpool is BRILLIANT and anyone who says otherwise is an IDIOT.

I asked a couple of VERY POLITE questions on another UK forum and was threatened with being banned! (from the other forum, not from blackpool).

It's hilarious the power this odd little chap has over the UK magic scene.

I have not been banned from Blackpool--this I can say because I just successfully registered. Not as a dealer, just going as an attendee to see what the average person who goes sees. I also have work with David Berglas in London on our new book during the same trip.

I'd love to get some good tricks for Magicana, so if anyone has material they'd like to contribute and will be at Blackpool, please find me because I'll have my video camera.

Juan Tamariz is a master of creating false memories in the minds of his audience. He masterfully blends truths, half-truths and lies, creating such a powerful impression that reconstruction by the audience is impossible – even experienced magicians have great trouble finding the seams, never mind unravelling them.

While Tamariz uses those techniques to create wonder and amazement to the delight of his audiences, comparable techniques are maliciously being used here for the attempted destruction of the character of Derek Lever and of FISM 2012.

Before I go any further, please read the following two paragraphs and see what you make of the person mentioned.


“Years ago, in Ireland, I came across an old magician named Lambert. As a young man he had once worked in a circus, performing menial tasks such as cleaning up elephant dung. On the basis of this experience he had convinced himself that he had been in show business. He was a dreadful performer, quite incompetent, and he had no idea how bad he really was. Magic had been a lifelong hobby of his and he must have bored to death countless thousands of people over many, many years. I remember seeing him trying to perform dice stacking. This is a difficult undertaking even for a skilled magician. Unfortunately, in Lambert's hands the whole exhibition was a disaster. Dice went flying all over the place, under chairs, tables and other more exotic places. At first I attributed his incompetence to the fact that he was usually quite drunk when performing. However, on subsequent occasions I saw him work when he was sober and the results were just as pitiful. In fact, he was slightly better when he was drunk!

Despite his lack of talent he knew quite a bit about magic. Like many hobbyists he had read all the books but couldn't translate his knowledge into entertainment. He was also quite inventive. He showed me a method of displaying and spreading a Svengali Deck face upwards on the table so that no key cards would show. Normally the only way you can do this is to spread the deck face down and flip them over domino-style showing the cards to be indifferent. However, with Lambert's method you can just spread the cards out straight away without any turnovers. I must explain that Lambert couldn't do his own move properly but he managed to describe it to me in between various bouts of inebriation. I don't know what happened to Lambert. He was about eighty when I met him so he must be long gone by now. I expect he died of alcohol poisoning.”

Again, before reading more, what picture have you made of this magician Lambert?

A while back I bought a bunch of books at an auction. One of them was The Mark Lewis Svengali Routine and in it were the two paragraphs above. He is referring to Hubert Lambert. The only thing that Mark Lewis had against Hubert Lambert (who obviously had shown Lewis some kindness by teaching the move), was that he belonged to the magic club in Dublin that later banned Mark Lewis from its meetings. (The reason is irrelevant to this discussion and it can be verified my many who were members at the time).

The technique used to attack Hubert Lambert is that of the sneer – create a caricature unrelated to reality, and then mockingly destroy it. It is a medley of truth, half-truths and lies.

Let me tell you a little about Hubert. I met him first when I joined The Society of Irish Magicians in Dublin in 1971. I don’t ever recall a meeting where he didn’t have something useful to contribute. He corresponded with many US magicians and had contributions published in books and magazines including GENII, The Phoenix, Ultimate Card Secrets and Korem Without Limits, to name a few. He was an early mentor of Billy McComb, who always spoke highly of him.

Hubert never worked in a circus and never had any aspirations to become a professional magician that I am aware of, and the older magicians who knew Hubert a lot longer than I did, concur. In the time I knew him, I can only recall four public performances, two at charity shows and two short TV appearances, one demonstrating paper-folding. Hubert worked in the printing department of Irish Press newspapers.

I saw him perform dice-stacking many times and never once did he complete a performance without dropping at least one of the dice. That is true. Nonetheless he always had gags to cover it. In all the time I knew Hubert he was never drunk, nor did I ever see him even slightly inebriated. He was definitely not an alcoholic.

So Mark Lewis’short discourse on Hubert Lambert is made up of truths, half-truths and lies, for the sole purpose of character assassination.

I’ve put it here so readers of the GENII forum can make a comparison with it and the attacks on Derek Lever. What Lewis has done to Lambert is precisely what is being done here to Derek Lever

The chief plaintiffs here have set themselves up as Judge, Jury and Executioner. Anyone who does not agree or comply with the proffered view that Derek Lever is the greatest arsehole in magic, is ridiculed as being his muppet, his bitch or in his pay. (BTW, if I were in Derek Lever’s pay, do you think I would have rectified the very serious false accusations made against Carl de Rome?)

And, according to these plaintiffs not only is DL the greatest arsehole in magic, he’s an even bigger bastard because he isn’t coming here to the online lynching, “Well Mr Lever, what do you have to say before we hang you?”

I love the way you put words into people's mouths. You're the master of half-truths.

I suggested, because I work in online marketing, that for Lever and his cronies to shut down threads on all UK magic forums is one thing, but someone should do SOME online PR here.

That's not calling him a "bastard" as you suggest, just short sighted.

Obviously he can scare Nigel into dealing with the Bunny threads, deal with talkmagic, etc. What he can't do is deal with this place.

No one is saying he is a bastard for not dealing with this train wreck of a thread. Just, maybe, missing a trick.

As stated, the Blackpoo Conference has for many years attracted magi the world over for its cheap conference and world class magicians.

I think FISM costs about 8-10 times more and is 6 months after Blackpool.

His problem is going to be that people won't do both.

So there is less lynching and more unanswered questions. And the fact he isn't answering them, or sending in amusingly fake people to answer for him, like on other forums, well, that's interesting to me.

Looks like Horatio Caine is even getting in on the act

Seeing that Richard is also not banned ...

I thought I'd contact Derek directly seeing that he stated that people are only banned from Blackpool "for serious reasons such as shoplifting, abusive behaviour/drunkenness, obscenity and fly pitching" He did explictly state that difference of "personal opinion" was not a reason ...

As someone suggested - this whole banning issue could just have been a horrible misunderstanding from the start. I would hope so ... and what an ideal opportunity for Mr Lever to show to the world that the spirit of magic is indeed alive in Blackpool by unbanning those who were mistakenly caught up in this banning saga.

I unfortunately received no response.

So difference of "personal opinion" still remains on the list of prohibited activities unfortunately.

We look forward to your updates, Richard, and even more excitedly await the arrival of David Berglas' new book.

Its not that I do not agree or comply with Mr Lever at all Quentine.

Its that I do not buckle down and do exactly what Mr Lever says or actually Derek mainly DEMANDS,
This is all that is needed to get banned by Derek,
One of the worst things when Derek does Bann you is he does not even bother most of the time to even let you know why you have been banned, as this clause is part of one of his rules,

And then IF he feels like it, he seems then to always step way over the line by not just banning the one person who he takes offence to, but also banning friends, family members, acquaintances, and staff of the banned person,
In fact any person that knows you personally is also banned from his beloved Magic convention.
Plus also The Manchester Club he and his wife set up and run,

I know this from first hand experience going back now as most people will know for over 14 years.
Its only for just OVER THE LAST YEAR that I have even bothered and aired my personal views on these forums, yes I know it seems longer but its just over a year.

For the other previous 13 YEARS I put up with the constant bannings,
I put up with myself and my wife being evicted from the many events we were personally invited to attend, and WHY ? Simply because he Derek Lever was not the invitee,
Derek Lever always put himself on the highest pedestal,
Even way above the then elected presidents of the Blackpool Magicians Club on every single one of these occasions.

It came to the time of my last Banning that I had just really had enough, not because of being banned, but because Derek had to have a go at my late good friend Cyril Critchlaw, who was one of the nicest and most kindest members ever and also a Hon life Member of the BMC.
For those magicians privileged also to have also known the late Cyril I'm sure that they will testify to this fact themselves,

I would never actually put you down as a Muppet in Derek’s pocket Quentin, As what you said about sticking up for me was 100% correct in your post,
All these false accusations would have made Derek Lever smile for once maybe even throw a large street party, and there would have been no reason at all to put things right as you did,
So No if you was a Muppet in Derek’s pocket, You would never have pointed out to Mark Lewis how wrong he was about me,
So again MANY THANKS for what you did, it was and still is very much appreciated and I could not thank you enough,
I just hope you now don’t get banned from Blackpool for doing this for me.

But to me Derek Lever is still the nastiest little man in Magic, and I should know I have had to put up with so much crap from this raving lunatic for too many years without speaking out.
The other person he plastered a Banned poster up off at the entrance to last years convention
Was Jonathon Royal, who was admitted in the end but only after he threatened to take the security people to court,
If I had known that Derek was to print what he did in the brochure about me, and also to incite me to commit suicide live on the stage last year, I too would also have attended the event,
instead of staying away as I actually did, as I was in Blackpool my home town for the whole week.

Its not only that Derek Lever chooses NEVER to reply to any accusation on these threads, but has anyone noticed, that none of other Members of the Blackpool Magicians Club (that’s about 45 members in the club) seem to come onto any of these forums and either stick up for Derek or even to speak out against him, I don’t think anyone from the BMC has actually spoken out and made any reply,
Maybe its because they have been TOLD NOT TO.
Or if they do attempt to have there say,
They to will be Banned from Blackpool ? or worse still thrown out from the Blackpool Magicians club

Also as one last Thought,?..
Is it not weird that EX Blackpool President for many times, and previous Blackpool Magic Convention Organiser STEVE EASTHAM together also with Derek’s EX Assistant Convention Organiser ALAN MYLECRAINE have all of a sudden uprooted themselves and both left the Blackpool Magicians Club, and resurrected The Fylde Mystics Club,
I don’t know why these two people chose to breakaway from the BMC, but it would be nice to know, as Both Steve and Alan have been a part of the BMC for many years,
and If I'm correct Steve Eastman especially has been part of the BMC longer than Lever has,

By the way. Am I the only person that never gets sent the BMC Newsletter, as I have been accepted at long last as a subscriber to there mailing list on there web site now for ages, and never yet, not even once, have I received one single bit of information from them,
I sometimes do wonder why ?

Carl de Rome

Wow. It took me all day to read through these posts, watch the videos, read the press articles and understand all the parties involved. This is just one of the many heated discussions circulating the net including the recent Mark VS. Twins debate and Russ Vs. Shawn. I cannot deny how interesting they are, but one must read through them with an impartial mind and not make rash judgements.

I started a thread on Talk Magic, listing the positive reasons for FISM in Blackpool.
http://www.talkmagic.co.uk/ftopic32517-0-asc-0.php
I was ‘challenged’ to come here and respond to the posts on this thread. I will not however fuel the argument any further because there are already too many people doing that.

However, the past is the past and I think we have to be the mature ones and just try to work out our differences for the betterment of magic. Just remember that Derek is a human being who is proud of his convention. If you insult him or his work, he is entitled to defend himself, just like every one of you would do. If someone attacked me or my work, I too would defend myself using whatever tools were at my disposal.

It seems like some of the issues are being addressed, as Derek gave an interview and sent a letter to Tony. So he is trying to find common ground with all parties to ease tensions.
Carl & Colin, your situations cannot be simply swept under the rug, I understand that. And to dismiss you would be futile and only lead to further heated discussions for many more years. Let me ask you this: What can Blackpool Magicians Club do to rectify this situation?

For the record, here is my list of good reasons for FISM in Blackpool.

1. FISM is in the UK. Derek is showcasing our lovely country and introducing us to people around the world.

2. Derek is running this. Derek is the king of convention organising. His strong team are experts in all their fields. He organisers the biggest convention in the world (Blackpool) and now he is about to take FISM to the next extreme. I believe FISM needs this, since quite frankly it hasn't been that big recently, and magic conventions all over the world have been wilding in attendance, dealers and stars. With Derek behind FISM, he can put the world of magic back in the spotlight and show those other convention organisers how it should be done for the years to come.

3. Blackpool is a tourism city. This means it is filled with cheap bed and breakfast, which are close to the venue. In regards to cost, this is very important because visitors from around the world can actually afford to attend this convention. In the past, hotel fees have been astronomical and combined with other fees, FISM has been too expensive to attend in the past.

4. We speak English! I never went to China since I don't speak the language and didn't want the extra hassle of having to translate everything. Since most of the world and magic community especially speak English, it seems like a sensible choice to have it in an English speaking country.

5. We will have an amazing turn-out. I compare this to the recent IBM, where there was only about 50 dealers. While Blackpool gets about 400. FISM will most likely double that if they can fit them into the room.

6. Attendance figures for Blackpool are in the thousands, but I wouldn't be surprised if this hits the double figures. It has international status and it will encourage more over-sea visitors to come along. This will increase the money dealers make, and the local attractions. It will bring customers to Blackpool.

7. It will increase the popularity of Derek's other conventions, not just Blackpool but the small clubs that he also helps run. Even if its just their auctions, his name will get extra seats at the club meetings as well as giving the magazine editors something to talk about for the next 4 years.

8. The competitions. With Blackpool just before it, we can expect that convention to be the 'heats' for FISM. This means the standard at Blackpool that year will be significantly high, with entertainers from around the world wishing to take part. With the very best moving onto FISM. The overall standard of magic in competitions will be raised a notch. I also hope this means that there are more UK entrants and increases the chances of one of us winning again.

9. Local news and TV courage is almost a given. It was in the local press that Blackpool had actually got FISM, but I'm sure some TV Channel will want the broadcast rights for the convention itself. England is inundated with TV stations. Start a bidding war for this once in a lifetime opportunity to showcase on TV the biggest convention in the world. It means extra money for the convention and an additional performing outlet for the stars.

10. Blackpool may undergo a re-fit for the convention. Yes, it is the same year as the Olympics, so it will probably have an upgrade for that, but with FISM in toe, they may bring all their development schemes forwards to create a better atmosphere for Blackpool itself. This would hopefully mean more street lights and decorations, less boarded up shops and better attractions.

11. Back to the convention itself, Derek has the experience needed to make this a success. How many other organisers have the skills, contacts or experience to match him? I can't name any. He will bring in the best lecturers in the world, and probably get them cheaper than anyone else as well due to his ability to role them out on a UK lecture circuit and perform at Blackpool as well. It basically means he can book a lecturer for multiple shows, which means there overall fee will come down. This means he can book more stars and everything gets bigger, better and cheaper!

12. We now have a world championship for children's entertainers. This is outstanding news! I know some magicians (usually the amateurs) see children's entertainers as weak artist. But any true professional magician will tell you that kids magic is extremely difficult and requires a whole different range of skills. There definitely deserves to be a competition for those artiste, and how dare anyone say that kids entertainers don't deserve to be represented at a convention. They are the lifeblood of all magic, and without them, none of you would be magician today.
Derek has done the right thing in making this category, and officially he did seek the permission from the FISM representative before initiating it.
I would be proud to be apart of the competition if given the chance and I am glad it is here.

13. On the idea of introducing new events - this is fantastic! What’s wrong with adding new competitions, events and shows to make a convention bigger and better than ever before. It’s adding new stuff that keeps the punters coming back year after year. I would like to see more new events at FISM and other conventions.

14. The fact that it coincides with the Olympics (which we also have) means tourism will be up, and that visitors who may not normally have come to FISM, will come to the Olympics and attend FISM at the same time. It means the turnout for the convention with overseas visitors will be at an all-time high.

15. Another reason will be the increase of popularity for Blackpool Magicians club (with TV exposure), and the Magic Circle. The MC is a well established famous UK club and having FISM in the UK will help it get a lot of added press coverage and no-doubt the president will be wanted for tons of interviews. It will make the MC more prominent again, and make awareness for the club known around the world.

16. And finally, with more magic in the press, on the TV and live shows up North, the local magicians, children's entertainers and artists will get a lot more work. For most clients, it’s about knowing what to do for an event. Hiring a magician isn't always on the to-do list until its to late and they forgot about the entertainment. It means with more magicians in the news, the clients out-there will know that they need a magicians for their event.
With more magicians on TV, it makes us popular again and so they will be wanting to hire us for their child's birthday rather than go to the Bowling alley or something. It makes us more of a thrill because they can relate to us as a celebrity coming to a party. The exposure of the magic arts will mean an increase in work for all magicians around the country.

17. Full English Breakfast! Where else in the world can you wake up to a full plate of Egg and Bacon with all the fixings!

18: The Rushkin. Anyone who knows Blackpool, knows that the Rushkin is the place to go at night. Its where you get to mingle with the stars and share ideas that expand everyone's repertoire. No other convention has the Rushkin, or even a comparable alternative (that I am aware off).

19: Local attractions. If you get sick of magic, you can always walk down to the beach, visit the tower or the wax museum. There are plenty of tourist attractions in Blackpool that can get you away from the magic for a few hours or days. This is a welcome advantage because too much 24/7 magic can feel like an overload and having something different to do can re-charge your batteries.

Stephen, I think you over-reached a bit with reason #17
"Full English Breakfast! Where else in the world can you wake up to a full plate of Egg and Bacon with all the fixings!"

The answer is almost every coffee shop and hotel in the United States.

There is now a new Video, its short so we have named it Video 2.5
The links below are for all three of them, so you can save them
And watch them moré easy.

Video 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKEU8ZOHvoM&feature=player_embedded

Video 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LGM1iQQW9FE&feature=response_watch

Video 2.5 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc0nZ5vJBII

PS.....again I am not the person behind these, but WOW are they great, and bloody funny as hell.

also re posting the link to this as well,
as this is the video that started the ball rolling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsFAOEGmKVA&feature=related

Carl de Rome

I'm very tired of this thread. Unless someone has something interesting to post, I suggest we leave it.

Ohhhh, but this has been entertaining me for weeks, I'm really going to miss it.

As this thread has encompassed many feuds - go here http://www.australianinstituteofmagic.org/ and you can vote on our poll as to What is Magic's hottest rivalry.

I have been banned from attending magic conventions at Kutcher's.

Come off it Richard, you cant really be serious about closing this thread down,
Can you?
Because you're getting bored with it,???
Think about the rest of us,
That are not bored at all with this excellent thread on geniis forum,

Things get posted on the Genii forum,
where in the UK on some of the forums they would get locked, blocked and taken down instantly


The popularity of BANNED FROM BLACKPOOL speaks for its self
Some of the closest rivals to this on BUZZ are

Magic Con 2010 with 27 replies and 1608 Views
Bruce Cervan with 32 replies and 1329 views

But Craig Mitchells BANNED FROM BLACKPOOL Thread
Up to now has had a MASSIVE 450 Replies already
and a WHOPPING 26.476 VIEWS
And it is the only thread now into its sixth page

Surely this is the Most popular thread on the whole of the Genii Forum
At this present time.
Unthinkable to even consider closing it down.
Especially with so many Magicians and Entertainers WORLDWIDE following what's happening here.

Carl de Rome

Carl,

FYI - the most popular thread on the Genii Forum, hands down, is the Erdnase thread with 116 pages, 1150 posts, and 268,478 views.

Hi Richard,

It is your forum and your decisions about keeping this thread alive or locking it must hold final.

However it is interesting to note that one of those who is insisting on you keeping it open and alive and basically telling you what to do has as a footnote to all his posts...................." never let others dictate to you"

As with his posts, his footnote, is also an enigma.

Cheers from the Emerald Isle,
John Bowden

Re; footnote; Let's not read too much in to that, he probably just encountered some difficult prose at Secretarial school, I guess some people just give up too easily.

Has this thread accomplished its original objective? Namely is Craig Mitchell barred from attending FISM in 2012?

No he isn't, nor is anyone else.

I would prefer that we didn't keep nagging on the same old points like a bunch of old housewives. I've tried to move the rivalry to an end by asking what the Blackpool Magicians club can do to end the rivalry. Instead you post links to more insulting videos that are now growing tiresome, and abusiveness. You are no-longer attacking just one individual, you have named several people in those clips and it seems that you are simply attacking everyone now for the fun of it.
If all you are doing is attacking people to get some excitement in your life, then please do it elsewhere.

I would most definitely like to know how we can make things right with anybody that feels abused in some way. What will it take to end these hostilities, and yes, get the videos and insulting websites taken down by the owners themselves.

We are all magicians, trying to help other magicians and enjoy our hobby. How can we get back to those core values that our art treasures so much?

Hi Stephen

Your intentions are indeed noble.

I have emailed Mr Lever on multiple occasions & have yet to receive a reply to any of my messages.

Communication is a vital first step ...

Quentin, Craig was banned from Blackpool 2010... and still is.

To Quentin,

You asked "is Craig Mitchell barred from attending FISM 2012 in Blackpool?" and the answer to that is no. However he is banned from attending other Blackpool Conventions for his own safety or such is my understanding from posts here on this forum..

Safety here might mean safety from doing himself or of doing his reputation immeasurable harm.
How? ...................you might inquire.

Let us assume he was allowed to attend and he did show up, what would everyone think except that Craig Mitchell is a hypocrite for attending a convention he derides with every opportunity on any forum that allows him access, in a place he detests and run by Derek Lever who he despises.

It would be remiss of Derek Lever and The Blackpool Magicians Club to allow him to do such harm to himself.

To Stephen,

You are totally correct in asking for the removal of insulting and damaging material from the internet by those who put it in place. No form of communication should take place until such time as these obstacles are removed.

To Craig Mitchell

You have acknowledged that Stephen’s intentions are noble so would you not consider following his advice with regards to the removal of the websites you have access to and to which you have posted links to in your posts?

You mention that you have emailed Derek Lever on multiple occasions and have yet to receive a reply. He is not in any way obliged to reply to you or anyone else either privately or on this forum or indeed by any other method.

To quote your last line

“Communication is a vital first step......”

No Craig it isn’t the vital first step, that first step is and has always been ‘Consent to Communicate’.

How you or any of the others here, who have problems with Derek Lever or any other members of the Blackpool Magicians Club, go about establishing good will remains a matter, you may need to consider. I'm sure with honest effort on your part goodwill can be established and consent to communication can be a final step.


Cheers from the Emerald Isle,
John Bowden

Yes, that's my understanding too - along with Carl de Rome, and I don't see how any amount of discussion here will change that.

However no one is barred from FISM 2012, which was the main point that needed clarifying.

Thank-you John. Your support is appreciated.

And thank-you Craig for your response as well. It goes a long way to showing that at least you are open to fixing all this and that you have tried in the past to contact Derek.
I do however have to agree with John on the fact that while the websites and videos are active, it is not in Dereks best interest to be in touch with you or anyone. They are visible attacks against him to a level that is beyond reason. He should not have any contact with you or anybody else due to the cruelty that has been displayed at him. What if those videos were about you, would you be open to speaking with the bully who perhaps made them? I think not. I would imagine that only after those videos and websites are removed would he think about entertaining your e-mails, and not before.

That is why I asked how 'Blackpool Magician's Club' could help the situation, and not Derek directly. I know that a resolution between you / Carl and Derek is highly unlikely with all the bad blood and so I won't even entertain the idea as it would be fruitless. But the videos and websites aren't attacking just him, they are attacking an entire club, the FISM council and several outstanding members of the magic fraternity. A lot of people put a lot of time and effort into making Blackpool successful and whoever made the videos is insulting all of them, not just Derek.

Even so, any personal attack should not be applauded and I admit I'm shocked that it has been allowed to go on for so long on this site. Not just by you, but by others as well. I understand your grief, for I too have had my share of disputes. But I have never made them personal or public like this has become.

Anyway. I have to be careful that we don't go around in circles on this debate. I am not an active member of the Blackpool Club, I am simply hoping that we can get a potential solution on the table and then let the deciding parties decide what to do with it. I know they read this thread. We as fellow magicians at least need to help integrate that first step into healing since this fight has been going on for numerous years and it is only escalating with no sign of stopping. Even if this thread was deleted, there are a dozen others on other forums to go, and more videos probably in the making. We need to fix the problem at the heart and not add more to it.

I personally don't know what can be done at this point, I just hope that you, Carl, and whoever made the sites and videos will be the bigger man and take them down before the consequences escalate to a level this is hurtful for so many people. I understand your anger, I really do. But don't let your anger at one man turn you into something worst than what you perceive him to be.

Whoever made them, I am asking - please take them down so that we can take the first step into fixing this situation.

P.S: The Full English Breakfast is a very different dish over here in the UK. I went to America and its a very different meal over there, with crispy bacon and different fixings.

Reason 20 for Good reasons for FISM in Blackpool - Unobstructed views of the stage.
I have read some bad reviews of the China theatre, where seats were behind pillars. I know this is a common problem in some theatres, even in London. However non of the Blackpool theatres have any obstructions. You get a perfect view, for all 4000 people in attendance.

Actually it's a tad less than 3,000. You'll often find people looking for gala show seats once it's sold out.

http://www.blackpoolevents.co.uk/Shows/Bellydance-Superstars.htm

I don't remember any seats behind pillars at FISM in China.
Where are you getting your information Stephen? Please make sure you check your information before posting.

I tell you what, if anyone put up a picture of me in front of 3k people and urged everyone to kill me, I would think a humourous video mocking Lever would be the absolute MINIMUM I would do to teach him a lesson.

Unless that never happened too?

Also, what do you think about Lever attacking arguably Britain's most well known magician by calling him a c-list celeb and saying "he is not invited to FISM".

This whole thing isn't as one sided as you appear to be painting it, is it?

Although I am glad Lever has finally sent some 'friends' here to attempt to patch up this PR disaster. Shame it took so long. Someone needed to do something. On the UK boards, obv Lever just got the threads like this deleted or pulled or banned Carl etc. No such powers here. Fortunately.

I think trying to persuade the international audience to come to Blackpoo in January, and then again 5 months later and pay 10 times the price is going to be VERY hard to achieve.

Ah! Mr Goat,

Your first mistake was when you wrote

"I tell you what, if anyone put up a picture of me in front of 3k people and urged everyone to kill me, I would think a humourous video mocking Lever would be the absolute MINIMUM I would do to teach him a lesson."

There was never a picture of anyone put up where anyone was encouraged to kill................a picture was taken by the MC from a person's own website, yes it was from his own website, and he was encouraged to "Do it" as in the Nike advert.

By the way Mr Goat was this after Derek Lever had been portrayed as Hitler on posters??
Just curious as to the time-line here..................maybe it doesn’t matter. It is just a minor fact which you have ignored.

Next mistake
“Also, what do you think about Lever attacking arguably Britain's most well known magician by calling him a c-list celeb and saying "he is not invited to FISM".

Was this after his outburst against Blackpool and Derek Lever being awarded FISM or before?

Again the time-line here is just an incidental fact that you have ignored

How could anyone who says what they like against Blackpool and Derek Lever then expect that they should be made welcome by those same people?

Personally I hold Paul Daniels in the highest regard and have the utmost respect for him and would have considered him as a possible ambassador for FISM but he seems to have ruled himself out of that portfolio.


On to your next misadventure (being kind here)

“Although I am glad Lever has finally sent some 'friends' here to attempt to patch up this PR disaster.”
Having been to Blackpool every year for the last twenty odd years I have got to know Derek Lever. He has always been courteous, kind and helpful to me and we have never had any problems.
He doesn’t send me a Christmas card.
However if I thought he was wrong I would post to that effect. I’d also establish the facts surrounding the problem before I would post.
Derek Lever doesn’t need to send in friends to “patch up this PR disaster”...................................about 3500 will do it for him next February.
I’m sure when we get to know each other better we too can be friends and I look forward to a chin wag at conventions.

Now on to your final error
“I think trying to persuade the international audience to come to Blackpool in January, and then again 5 months later and pay 10 times the price is going to be VERY hard to achieve. “

With regards to getting magicians to come to Blackpool in Feb 2012 and again in Feb2013 with a FISM in between is just a matter of opinion as to the feasibility of such a venture. Personally I don’t foresee a problem arising.
However to say that it will be ten times the price is way off the mark. It will be €450 as opposed to the €100 it costs for the Feb Convention. Just a mathematical error. Google do a very good calculator and again I advise that you use Google more effectively

These are just minors fact that you overlooked

So you have consistently overlooked facts and then you expect us to take you seriously.

Now, Mr Goat please, in the future aim to get the facts correct before posting and maybe then you could establish some credibility.

Cheers from the Emerald Isle
John Bowden................... that my real name.

The reports I read were of early registrants being seated on the flat and having obstructed views of the stage, not by pillars but by heads. Tim, I'm quite sure you knew what he meant.

So, Lever took a picture from someone's website without their permission, (stealing), and projected it in front of 3,000 people where he then encouraged them to "Just do it". The picture was of a performer putting a gun to his own head.

And you think that is OK?

Interesting morals you have, Sir.



Doesn't matter at all.

Simple question Bowden: Do you think it is A Good Idea to tell a room full of people to kill someone?



I can't see I've made one mistake yet, but whatever.



What does it matter?

I asked you what you thought about Lever attacking the most well known and liked magician in the country and telling him he wasn't welcome at FISM.

So, what do you think about it?



Or it is irrelevant?

Or are you saying that because Daniels said Blackpool was not suitable for a world-class event such as FISM, then Lever can act like an unprofessional, spoilt little boy?



No one suggested they should. I asked what you thought about his embarrassing outburst.



Well rather than pose for a picture like this

[img]http://magicunlimited.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451dfaa69e20120a61772a6970c-800wi[/img]

It might have been a better move for Lever to contact Daniels and invite him up. Show him why he is wrong about Blackpool being "tasteless, tacky, bawdy and scruffy". (Personally, I think that is impossible, but you know, he could at least TRY).

Don't you think that makes Lever look slightly unhinged?



Don't be kind on my behalf. You say what you mean, Sir. But, a difference of opinion isn't a misadventure. Bless.



I beg to differ. Already, thousands of international magicians come to Lever's shindig in January. Now he is going to have to persuade them to do that, AND then return a few months later to see the same people do the same acts and the same dealers sell the same stuff. But, at FISM it will cost them 5 times what January did.

He has done well at shutting down any negative forum posts in the UK, but this board is probably the most respected by international magicians. The very people he needs to persuade to fly to the UK twice in 6 months.

I reckon he's got his work cut out.



An difference of opinion isn't an error, darling.



Brillant. I do. That's that then.



I expect no such thing. Take me as you wish.

However, I have not over looked facts, Sir. I have just looked at events differently.

You think it's OK to steal a picture from someone's site with them holding a gun to their head and urging them to kill themselves, or incite people to kill them.

You think it's professional and decent to insult Britian's most loved and famous magician.

That's fine.

I will defend TO THE DEATH your right to believe that is acceptable behaviour from a chairman of an international magic event.

I don't.

I admire your honesty, but don't confuse errors with differences of opinion, makes any point you attempt to make lack seriousness. But then again, so does thinking it's acceptable to do what Lever has done.

"So, Lever took a picture from someone's website without their permission, (stealing), and projected it in front of 3,000 people where he then encouraged them to "Just do it". The picture was of a performer putting a gun to his own head."


That was done by Tony Stevens the MC. Derek Lever knew nothing about it. That I have confirmed.

"He has done well at shutting down any negative forum posts in the UK,"

That is pure speculation and to claim it as fact could well be libellous.

I don't understand some forms of popular entertainment.
What is a Christmas Pantomime? or a Punch and Judy show?

Reading this thread feels like watching one of the latter.

Is this where Richard comes in like the crocodile?

Mr Goat,

Where there was a difference of opinion between us I clearly outlined and where you ignored the true facts I also outlined and differentiated.

You continue to ignore true facts using innuendo and hearsay as reliable evidence.

What has Derek Lever or Blackpool Magic Club ever done, to you personally, that hurt you so badly?

Why are you still hurting?
Can you be helped?
Is it just anger, jealousy or what?

Once we know your agenda it may be possible to suggest some form of aid.

My agenda is purely altruistic in wishing to see you as happy as can be.

I have tried not to use words that you might have difficulty in understanding and I have kept away from figures as I realise that is a no go area for your limited cerebral resources.

Cheers from the Emerald Isle...........................and wishing you inner peace (poor sad boy)
John Bowden .......... that is my real name.

Hi Jonathan,

Gosh!!!! I hope Mr. Crocodile doesn’t show up just yet as I know Mr Punch has a few more babies to throw down the stairs......................oh yes! ...............he has.

Cheers from the Emerald Isle
John Bowden.

You truly are a beautiful human being. I can forgive you patronising me now.

Let's hug it out.

You are one special human being.

FYI, Mr Lewis has asked me to post the following:

"perhaps you could do me a favour and tell troublemaker Quentin Reynolds that my reference to the Amazing Lambert in my svengali deck book had nothing to do with Hubert Lambert at all. Lambert is a very common name in Ireland and Quentin knows that full well.

Quentin is making Hubert look bad because of his false statements not me."

I have just got off the phone with Mark and can confirm the information above. The Lambert in his book is NOT the Hubery Lambert in question.

For the love of God isn't it time to lock this thread. I called for a locking of this thread way back on page 1 I think. I dont see any new information coming forward and until that happens is there really any point in continuing this seeing as all everyone seems to be doing is going round in circles and off in tangents.

Brendan

It's interesting to see everyone go kind of nuts once in a while, don't you think?

For every person who thinks the thread should be locked, there are an equal amount (or more, according to the number of views) who are reading it with great interest.

I read it with great interest too. I don't even want to imagine how much time I have spent here viewing this thread. Having said that if it continues to go off on tangents like it tends to do is there really much point?

I think we all need some comic relief. My latest discovery = for your viewing pleasure /// EPISODE 3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaLrAYvwXfs

enjoy

Carl, I think we all get your point now.

There was only ever one magician in Ireland by the name of Lambert and that was Hubert Lambert. Hubert did dice-stacking and had the move with the Svengali deck. This can be verified by John Bowden and a number of other Irish magicians. For Ronald Lewis (the real name of Mark Lewis) to state otherwise is a sign of oncoming dementia or a deliberate lie.

OK...I'm starting to lose track of what's happening on this thread.

We have at least three Nazi parodies, a poster who made un-supported accustions of theft who gets tossed and later apologizes and then someone posts that guy's attack on a dead Irish magician and then he is accused of potential dementia, plus the on-going battle between the head of an English magic club and England's most famous and beloved performer who gets disinvited from a convention he wasn't invited to in the first place, and the head of the club and a guy from South Africa who may or may not be banned from some convention somewhere, and a guy in Scandanavia who is having a feud with the guy in Blackpool (sometimes called "Blackpoo") and he's off the thread for a while and then comes back and the guy from Blackpool/Blackpoo has friends who post and defend him and RK comes in and thinks he should lock the thread and some guy says no and claims it's the most popular thread on the Forum (which it isn't) and some guy from Ireland comes in and tosses his thoughts into the mix and he and Goatie have a go at each other and Jonathan thinks it's a Punch and Judy Show with Richard as the crocodile (what's Jon been smoking?) and I think this is the Monty Python Argument Clinic on steroids.

Wow! More stuff than I can remember even without a drug flash back from the 70s.

Is this a great Forum...or what!

Sorry Quentin, he said "pillars" and referenced other theatres having similar problems so I assumed that's what he meant...

I'm guilty as charged, Richard. Similarly when driving I have a bad habit of slowing down to look at car accidents, even those that are off to the side of the highway. But that's not to say I don't expect that emergency services personnel will remove the injured (fatally and otherwise) and get the wrecks towed away. It's the only way to move on and resume some sense of normalcy in our lives. I submit that analogy for you to make of what you will.

Mr Goat,

Yes we can hug this out...............but that does not mean that we have a relationship going.

Your willingness to forgive me patronising you, although totally unintentional on my part, shows that you may already be on the pathway to recovery.

Any advice you need just ask, as you are aware I give it freely and its worth every penny you pay for it.

You, Mr Goat, possess a wonderful sense of humour that hasn't passed me by unnoticed and when I say I look forward to meeting you for a coffee and a chin wag............I mean it.

Cheers from the Emerald Isle,
John Bowden................."one special human being".

I have deleted Carl DeRome's recent post in which he wrote that Alan Watson's 14 year old daughter is banned from Blackpool. This was simply untrue and I received an e-mail from Alan Watson to that effect. From my point of view, Mr. DeRome stepped over the line on that one, and he will no longer be with us.

Yes, I just chatted with Alan and not only is she not banned, his 14 year old daughter doesn't exist! (He does have a 10 year old grand daughter)

FOR THOSE WHO HAVE JUST JOINED US:

This appears to be the photo from Carl DeRome's website to which the Nike Logo with the words "Just Do It" were added and displayed on the big screen at the Blackpool convention.


The caption was then (according to those who were there) altered to read "Go on then - Just Do It - I Dare You"

The first caption could - possibly - be seen as humorous, the second was patently malicious.

Apparently this display was not authorized by convention organiser Derek Lever, but by the gala show MC Tony Stevens.

Perhaps it was Tony's comment on the feud that was already in motion between Derek & Carl.

A feud which began with Derek banning Carl because of a letter Carl sent where he spoke about Blackpool in negative terms.

In response to being banned, Carl complained publicly and distributed pictures of Derek Lever as Hitler.

In response to that, Derek referred directly to Carl in the Blackpool Convention program as "an uncouth, illiterate, big mouth buffoon".



I believe - and if I'm wrong I'm sure to be corrected - that those are the facts in the Derek vs Carl De Rome situation.




Regards Derek vs Paul Daniels. Comments made by Paul Daniels about his dismay with FISM 2012 being awarded to Blackpool were reproduced in this thread. Because Paul is a celebrity in Britain, they were then picked up by the UK media. Derek chose to respond to Paul's comments by personally attacking Paul and suggested he was a "has been" and announcing he wouldn't be invited to Blackpool or Blackpool FISM.



As far as the Derek vs Craig Mitchell case (the basis of this thread), Craig's registration for Blackpool 2010 was returned by Derek along with a note referencing Craig's negative posts about Blackpool and deeming him "persona non gratis" at Blackpool.




Some people feel that people who have criticized Blackpool got what they deserve and should stop attacking Derek, others feel Derek could have responded to each of these situations in a more positive way.



I think that brings us up to speed.

Tangents? What tangents?

This has been a straightforward discussion about Derek Lever, his problems banning people in general and Carl de Rome in particular, Mark Lewis' incorrect accusations against Carl de Rome, Quentin Reynolds setting the record straight about that, Mark Lewis apologizing through the medium of Mr. Goat as he had been removed from the Forum (again), accusations of suggested violence and mayhem at a magic convention, denials by friends of Lever about his actions, a dust up between Lever and Paul Daniels, Carl de Rome coming and Carl de Rome going...twice, hallucinations of this being a traditional English children’s entertainment with Our Beloved Leader playing the part of a reptile, combat between and Englishman and an Irishman that evolved (or devolved) into a hug fest and both of them acknowledging that the other is "special" (whoo, what's that all about?) the sudden appearance of Alan Watson's long-lost and now non-existent daughter (who he never introduced me to when I visited his home in New Zealand) who was allegedly banned from Blackpool (or Blackpoo depending on where on stand…and be careful where you stand) with his 10-year-old granddaughter possibly acting as a stand-in in case an official Watson child must be banned from Blackpool…(or Blackpoo)...

In other words, this has been a perfectly normal, straightforward and, by the evidence, popular thread on magic’s premier forum. I don’t understand your complaint.

As the part owner of a faux Irish pub I can only suggest that a few more sips of Jameson and you’ll see how right I am.

Oh God, I forgot Hubert Lambert who was part of the Irish edition of Genii all those years ago and - I trust Quentin on this - a nice guy and well-thought of by the Irish magic community...apparently being confused with the other rotten SOB Irish magician also, inconveniently named Lambert. Wow.

The mind boggles...

We can only imagine what this thread will bring us in the future.

It is about time that I said something on this thread about Blackpool and Derek Lever. I probably attended my first convention there(one day in those days) about forty years ago. I now live in the US, but have flown over for the last few years to attend this great convention, and meet up with my many friends in the UK. In the last few years I have both been invited to lecture, and also take part in the children's entertainer world championships.

Derek Lever is a great bloke, and I like him. When I was an agent in London, Derek booked an illusion act for the Blackpool convention that I represented called Robert Silva(real name Robert Andrews) and Yvonne. This must have been about 20 years ago. They entered the UK championship, which I believe was held at that time on the saturday night.

In recent years, I made a comment in the Magic Circular about the Blackpool Convention, and Derek and I had a little disagreement with each other. At that time Pete McCahon(sadly now deceased) was editor of the Magic Circular. However, Derek and I sorted out our differences, and the next thing I know is I was booked to lecture.

Derek may not be everyone's cup of tea. However, he is straight talking and opinionated, but is also ready to forgive as well as admit if he has made a poor judgement. I shall be at Blackpool again in February 2010. It is a wonderful convention!!!

Talking about forgiveness......I have heard rumours that my old friend Mark Lewis may shortly be back on the GF. HOOray!! JR!

Hello everybody.

Is anyone else getting a bit bored with this thread? Is there really anything else to say right now? Maybe it is just me.

Dodd, are you planning on going to the Blackpool convention or FISM 2012 in Blackpool? If your answer is no to both, then this thread would hold little interest.

I must admit that David Alexander's post about the confusion on this thread made me laugh. Some very odd things have been happening lately. I am still in shock at hearing someone (I think Gordon Precious but I am not sure) at a magic meeting say that Entity known to me as Old Mother Baxter does a better show than Marc Salem and it has quite unsettled me. I am not sure if this is true or not since although I have been present at two Marc Salem shows I have never been able to hear a word he says. Mentalists should consider people in their audience like me who are old and deaf.

Anyway I was in such a shock at this statement that I took to my bed soon after and dreamt that I was on the Genii Forum. And then I woke up and found that I actually was. I am not quite sure how it came about.

I do agree that this thread has become a bit confusing. I am therefore going to start another thread to answer Quentin Reynolds who has decided to derail this conversation by bringing up my most wondrous book on the svengali deck even though it had absolutely nothing to do with the conversation at hand.

I shall discuss Carl De Rome, Hubert Lambert, Quentin Reynolds and a partridge in a pear tree on another thread. I would not want to confuse David Alexander any further.

I do have opinions about Blackpool having lived there for a considerable time. I loved the awful place and still do. In my upcoming memoirs (that incidentally Quentin tried unsuccessfully to block before he was sent off with a flea in his ear) I entitled one of the chapters "The University of Evil". Another chapter is "More evil at the university". The university is Blackpool where I got my education in wickedness.

I have to say that I think I rather like Derek Lever even though he sounds an absolute monster. I kind of cringe to think of posh international delegates coming to a, shall we say, blue collar place like Blackpool but on the other hand the chap does have experience running a convention so who knows?

At any rate there is nothing anyone can do about it now. Blackpool has been nominated and that as they say is that.

I shall now start another thread dealing only with Quentin Reynolds. It has been a long time coming. He isn't such a goody two shoes nice fellow as he appears. If he wishes to answer me he is welcome. I expect he won't. Confrontation is not his style.

It wasn't always like this. I have in front of me a book given to me by him in 1989. The author was some scoundrel or other named Richard Kaufmann whoever the hell that is. The book was the one concerning the work of Brother John Hamman. Inside the cover it says "To Mark. One of the world's greatest magicians whom I hold in the highest regard"

And there is more to come. I don't understand computers so I will have to post it in the next message.

Quentin also said this somewhere or other:

"I have no hesitation, nor have I ever had any hesitation or reluctance in acknowledging you as the finest card magician I have ever seen performing for laymen in an impromptu situation.

At conventions I have seen magicians, hailed as some of the world's best by their peers who I know would die a thousand painful deaths in the venues I have seen you perform. Venues where I have seen tough and hostile groups intrigued, tamed and turned into cheering fans in minutes and left shouting for more.

Your understanding of crowd psychology, direction of attention, getting people to relax, gaining their attention, keeping and controlling it are all part of what sets your performances apart.

You are also a superb Svengali pitchman and I can vouch that on your first day in Dublin you sold over 400 decks.

You are also a first class copywriter and have an excellent turn of phrase. If you put your mind to it you could be making thousands of dollars plus royalties from writing sales letters"

It is indeed true that I am a most wondrous performer and I thank Quentin for pointing it out. But of course he isn't the only one. Here is something from Peter Snow, one of the finest street magicians in the world.

"I can assure everyone who has not seen him perform his card work for laypeople that you've really missed something. I saw him many times as a youth perform spontaneously in restaurants, cafes and so on and he always got extraordinarily strong reactions and his work was an impromptu "event" that was strictly devoid of any sense of a prepared close-up magic show.
I learnt much from watching him work and he was certainly much stronger than many magicians who are considerably better known than him."

There. You now know what a genius you have in your midst. Not that I am one to brag of course. I would hate anybody here to think that I was immodest.

And now I shall depart this thread to start another one. A few things have to be placed on the record. Take a deep breath.

Welcome back Mark!!!

Here is my dilema. I have known both Quentin and Mark for many years. I consider them both to be good friends. I see Quentin each year at Blackpool....usually in The Ruskin(although Quentin usually has an orange squash or similar beverage in his hand as he no longer knocks back the hard liquor)!! In fact, Mark first introduced me to Quentin at the Spring show in Dublin. Mark and I were pitching Svengalis, and Quentin was doing his Punch and Judy. They were best buddies. Quentin was a prodigy of Eric Sharp, and I watched Quentin do several of Eric's routines in his show such as the educated rabbit.

For some reason, there is now bad blood between the two of them. This is a shame! My suggestion is that the two of them bury the hatchet, and replenish their friendship. They both have much to offer the world of magic! JR

I joined the Society of Irish Magicians in 1971 and was active on the Irish magic scene until I moved to Manchester in 2003. During that time I never heard of any magician by the name of Lambert, other than Hubert Lambert.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that it is he who is being referred to. However, I leave it to GENII forum members to make up their own minds.

And Roger, I notice your snide remark about hard liquor. I never knocked back hard liquor, and have rarely drunk alcohol at all.

The timeline is debatable. Who started what? Who escalated what? It’s always going to be one person’s word versus another. You could try and create a chronological timeline listing every major event in the feud (which I imagine someone has probably already done). But what would it matter? It won’t change anything. Were dealing with emotions here, and the facts won’t change that.

But let’s clarify and hopeful end a number of issues right now.

PAUL DANIELS
Paul Daniels made a comment on this site, which was abused by a newspaper. He gave his own entitled opinion, which a reporter decided to exploit for his /her own gain. Derek defended his home city and he should be proud of that. The only ‘bad-guy’ in this story is the reporter who started the fight. As of this date, Paul is very welcome to attend FISM and all Blackpool Conventions. He would be a welcome star and I would love to shake his hand and say Thank-you. End of debate.

TICKET PRICES
It is the public’s free choice to attend FISM and pay the E450 to attend FISM after paying E100 at Blackpool. If they have the money, they can attend both. If you can’t afford to attend FISM, then you can’t possible blame Derek for that. He doesn’t even get to select the ticket price! Having two conventions to choose from is a good thing. If you can’t afford FISM, go to Blackpool instead. Nuff said.

BAN LIST
Derek has admitted that there is a ban list due to bad behaviour at previous events. Many of those names are already known. They stole from the dealers and made violent attacks at the staff. Those people should be banned.
There are also numerous others who would not be welcome at the event due to their attacks against the society and its many members. It is within the Blackpool Magicians Clubs right to refuse admission to anyone they wish at the Blackpool convention. They do not do this without a reason, and the individuals this applies to are fully aware of the why. If you don’t like that, then attend one of the many other conventions happening instead, including the SEMC, IBM, IMS all that year.
However as of this moment, no-one is banned from FISM 2012. It is my understanding that there was some confusion on this point in the past, but that has been cleared up now. But continuous vicious attacks at individual members which include the online presence of websites and videos devoted to attacking FISM organisers will mean your application will most likely be rejected until you conform with basic morale behaviour. This is simply called being a gentlemen and I’m sure you can understand that while these websites exist, all involved with their creation will not be issued a ticket until those websites and videos are removed. You have three years however to shut down those sites upon which you can happily purchase a ticket on the door should you wish.

FULL ENGLISH BREAKFAST
Perhaps the most important topic on this entire thread! The English Breakfast is cooked in fat and has soft bacon. I have had the USA equivalent and it is an entirely different meal, not to be confused with the real thing!

DEREK’S PR COMPANY
I am not apart of Derek’s PR. I am a fellow magician who simply wants this situation cleared up, and yes this thread deleted along with the websites taken down and videos removed. I simply find it distasteful to read some vicious material against someone.
Quentin is also not in Derek’s PR company, although we have both met him and meet consider him a colleague.
Derek has not asked anybody, ever to come onto this or any other forum and defend him, for he has no need to. He runs a hugely successful convention which speaks for itself. The defenders he has on here do so because they believe in the cause.

PILLARS OF HEADS
I have read about the bad seating in numerous reviews, but a quick internet search took me to this site: http://magicunlimited.typepad.com/magic_unlimited_with_elli/2009/08/fism-2009-final-report-card.html under the heading of theatre which confirmed the rumours.
Along with this Geni’s own website’s review located here: http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=199306
Done by Craig Mitchell himself with photos! The majority of reviews talk about heads on the flats, but I did read about pillars in the back of the theatre somewhere – I just can’t place where right now. However the argument is still sound with the flats and heads issue.

I think that’s all the tangent stories taken care off. The main issue however will never be sorted out on this forum, especially when new videos are appearing to further the flames on the fire as it were.

I will end with this, all you guys have done is moan about how life is so unfair to you, and looked for attention on this forum. Derek has never done that. He has never come here or posted on any internet room. He simply does his job, even while being abused. It says a lot about a man when he is being attacked vigorously and yet he continues to pursue his goals regardless of what others would try to do to him. He does what he can for the benefit of magic.

Quentin......I apologise. That was never intended to be a snide remark, but only a joke. I will admit to knowing nothing about your past drinking/non-drinking habbits. I always find it interesting that whenever I enter the Ruskin, you appear to be the only person in there who is sober lol!! You are to be commended, my friend. JR

Finally, after 50 pages of debate, rancor, Nazi parodies, English/Irish hugs, posters vanishing, posters reappearing, someone who has his priorities straight.

I respect your loyalty to Queen and Country, Stephen.

Stephen - I think we all enjoyed the impassioned plea. But painting the perpetrator as the victim is an interesting strategy ;-)

perpetrators and instigators painting themselves as victims is nothing new, and even used as a definition of a word - chutzaph.

No offence Stephen, but Derek could have "defended his own city" without personally attacking Paul Daniels.

At no point did Paul personally attack Derek. I'm assuming you must not have read the first article that appeared in 'The Stage' which quoted:

"Meanwhile, Derek Lever, from Blackpool Magicians’ Club, described Paul Daniels as a “C-list celebrity” who would not be invited to the FISM Convention in Blackpool in 2012 and who does not get invited to the club’s own annual convention.
“If only Paul Daniels could fill the Opera House, Blackpool with 3,000 people like Blackpool Magicians’ Club do every year,” he added."

Or the subsequent article with a picture of Derek hitting a photo of Paul with a mallet which read:

"Derek Lever, chairman of the club, said: "He is not welcome in Blackpool and we will not be inviting him.

"We don't want him in Blackpool, he is a has-been.

"He has been doing the same electric hair routine for 40 years and it's time he got up-to-date.

"We have the real stars coming to the convention, we have David Blaine, people like that."

I applaud Derek for defending his town, but I'm not alone in suggesting it could have been done more effectively without demeaning Paul Daniels in the process.


And please don't harp on about the "pillars". You've made it clear now that the reference to "pillars" actually meant "heads".

Apparently Carl De Rome meant Alan CHESTER'S daughter was banned, not Alan WATSON'S.

Of course, Alan CHESTER'S daughter, not Alan WATSON'S. Good to have Tim here to act as a translator for Carl. (I thought Carl was English and was literate in English. Well, there's all those years living abroad...)

I am concerned that Stephen's defense of the "English Breakfast" did not mean any disrespect to the Full Scottish Breakfast, the Full Irish Breakfast, the Full Welsh Breakfast, or the Ulster Fry, let alone my own country's Big Breakfast or Sunday Breakfast.

Please, Stephen, clarify. And while you're at it, are these various fine UK meals available in Blackpool (or Blackpoo)? Or will we be left to partake of the so-called Continental breakfast, invented by the French because they didn't want to get up early to feed tourists a proper meal. ;-)

Who the heck is Alan Chester and why would his 14-year-old daughter be banned?

England is a different country from Scotland, Wales And Ireland. Consequently, their breakfasts are different.

Hope that helps clarify things.

Damian

Richard,

This bodes poorly for you to score well on the test about this thread that will surely follow. Probably multiple choice (Who has been tossed off this thread more than anyone? How many Nazis were in the video parodies?, How many Alans were mentioned here and how many children they had?, etc.)

Back in the old days of this thread Craig Mitchell wrote (post #201442)that Lever's ban of Alan Chester (who owns Tommy Cooper's Magic Shop in Blackpool) would extend to his then 13-year-old daughter. She has apparently aged a year since then. God knows with that kind of pressure, who wouldn't?

I suspect by the time this thread has worked it way to its natural Internet death this young woman will have married, had grandchildren for Alan (Chester, not Watson) and the question will be if the grandkids are banned as well.

Tres bizzare.

I thought she was banned because she stole from the dealers and made violent attacks at the staff. Those people should be banned.

British breakfasts are the best. I have never had a decent breakfast in this poxy fridge of a country since I have been here.

The owner of the local Blackpool magic shop - Alan Chester - was banned, his wife was banned, his daughter banned, all his employees were banned, and all his business associates.

That is lot of people to have been drunk, abusive and caught shoplifting.

And yet we were told by the organiser: “There are only about 7 people who are banned from Blackpool"

So someone is not being truthful. Or is it now a case that they have now all been provided with free registrations and in return have been asked to apologise and join the fan club ?

And what was the reason for the banning ?

We can choose to ban whoever we want to for whatever reason. We dont' intend to give any details as to why you may not attend.

How then can you intend to resolve a situation with someone if you are provided with no reason or rationale - whatsoever - other than 'I'm not going to tell you' because 'I don't want to'

Perhaps the Amazing Stephen can clarify something for us all. I have been reliably informed that Derek Lever takes a commission of 15% off any convention artiste's fee under the justification that he is an agent. And the artiste concerned doesn't really find out about this until he is booked. Is this true and if it is does he think it is ethical behaviour?

I also heard that he has a tendency to book American acts and promise them pounds but just after they pay their fare to England he changes it to dollars.

I think it is perfectly acceptable but then I used to live in Blackpool which is the most crooked town I have ever resided in. It makes Las Vegas look like the Vatican. I miss it dearly since it is where I first received my education in how to rip off the public in the way they deserve. And Blackpool holidaymakers certainly deserved it especially the ones from Yorkshire who were very reluctant to spend money so naturally it had to be taken off them by whatever means necessary.

I rather think Derek Lever is a man after my own heart.

I can speak from experience that the Australian Society of Magicians adheres to that policy, but I certainly hope that is not the case with Derek.

I am afraid so Tim. I have the email with the banning order confirming this - and that is what was stated by Mr Lever.

Sad indeed.

You mean the people sent here to calm the waters that said that isn't true are fibbing?

I understand that Mr Ellis is coming to Canada. I can assure him that he will not be banned from the convention that he is appearing at. We will put up with anybody, even Australians who walk around upside down all day.

Mark - I have no knowledge about this 15% rule. This thread was the first time I had even heard about it. However it does seems to me that no-one in all the years that Blackpool has been running has ever reported it as a problem should it be true. The artist’s states how much they want, and the agency add their commission on top. That is how an agency works. The artist gets their desired fee, as do the agency and the convention gets the stars it wants. The fact that Derek owns a part of the agency shouldn’t alter anything. That is how he pays his mortgage and taking advantage of all your assets is how a good business man works.
If you don’t like the arrangement, then turn down the job. I have been offered work by agents myself, who demanded 50%. I turned down the job and acquired my own clients elsewhere. I am still going why they packed it in years ago.
In the end it’s up to the artist to set their own fee, and then the agents on top. It really shouldn’t be up to us to discuss it.

The dollar to pound issue I think was a mistake in translation, but again I had no input on that. I will say that when I worked in America, I was paid in dollars myself rather than the pound equivalent which would have been much higher. But personally I was just happy to get paid and come back home. I missed my English Breakfast!

Mark(Ronnie) is right about British breakfasts. Breakfasts in America are no comparison. The reason that I visit Blackpool each year is not just for the convention, but for the breakfasts! Mind you, the Blackpool accommodations have to be some of the worst in the UK. I actually remember hearing Richard Kaufman complaining about the Blackpool hotels when he visited a couple of years ago. JR

I don't want to hear any more talk about the superiority of English breakfasts. Seeing a pile of baked beans first thing in the morning is not pleasant.

Then don't have the baked beans. I never do. In fact I hate the bloody things and always have. Forget the beans and eat the other stuff. Full of wonderful cholestorel. I have been a fan of unhealthy food all my life.

If Derek books an act for Blackpool on behalf of the Blackpool Magicians Club I really wonder if it is ethical for him suddenly to put on another hat and become an agent. It does sound a bit "off" in my opinion.

Now that I have brilliantly cleared up the Lambert matter I must now answer the dastardly remarks about my wondrous stage hypnosis course that has earned James Munton loads of money and another person not so much.

I do not want the matter on this confusing thread so to give it clarity I shall in due course start another one dealing with stage hypnosis only.

For the moment I shall merely say that a learning experience is a two way matter. You have to have a good teacher but you also have to have a good student. It seems that James Munton is a good student. The other chap not so much. I am afraid that in future he needs to pay attention in class.

He will be given another chance to do so on another thread.

I hate to go off topic, but seeing as you mention the name James Munton, you might like to know that James and I will be lecturing at a convention in Washington DC in January. Check out the link: www.KapitalKidvention.com

JR

Roger seems to be advertising again on threads that are nothing to do with him. He is a scoundrel of the first magnitude.

I am going to make a psychic prediction. I am shortly going to start a thread about how svengali pitchmen gather a crowd. Within a few posts he will suddenly chime in and say that he used to be a svengali pitchman and on the basis of this feels that he is entitled to advertise his book about the Spiritual Stage when he knows perfectly well that there is nothing spiritual in the slightest about the svengali business.

The closest connection that grafters (pitchmen) have to do with spirits is that they consume them in great quantities after the day's work is done. Oddly enough I never did but then I have always been a saintly kind of person.

To go back on topic ... some of you may recall that Derek Lever announced the "FISM World Championships of Childrens Entertainers" ( without the knowledge of anyone in the FISM General Assembly )

It has now been officially confirmed ( as expected ) by FISM that no such competition exists, that there is no new 'childrens magic' category at FISM nor is there likely to be in the near future.

It was all just a terrible 'misunderstanding' on the part of Mr Lever.

I suppose this is the same 'misunderstanding' where Paul Daniels is unofficially banned but welcome at the same time.

Lever is sending out little monkeys to all the forums to try and help him. One on another forum said of this:

"The children's competition is held at the Blackpool convention. It was previously named as the 'UK children's entertainer of the year competition', but with the permission he was given by the FISM representative, he has been allowed to change the name of the Blackpool kids competition to 'World champion children's entertainer of the year'."

Misinformation and gossip everywhere.

I should update http://blackpoolmagicsucks.wordpress.com

The business about Paul Daniels is simple: if were to attend the Blackpool convention, he would have to purchase a ticket like most other people. He would no longer be automatically comped. That's what an "invitation" means--you don't pay the registration.

True. Paul Daniels would have to buy a ticket like everyone, just like me, just like you and just like David Blaine did when he visited last year. Just because he is Paul Daniels does not mean he gets to walk into an event for free.

From the very first mention of the children’s world championship it did state that it would be held at the Blackpool convention. It has never, ever been stated anywhere that it was to be held at FISM. Get your facts straight.

Just because we actually read what you have to say, and have differing opinion to the situation does not make us Derek Lever’s Monkeys. I don’t speak for him, I just disagree with your interpretation of the facts. My beliefs are reinforced by the fact that Richard himself had to delete half the posts because of the lies that had been told. The exaggerated rumours and nonsense storytelling was hurtful and it was simply about time that someone stepped up and stood up to you.

If you keep to the facts, then I would have nothing to argue against.

Please take a look at this quote from The Gazette:

>>>Derek Lever, chairman of the club, said: "He is not welcome in Blackpool and we will not be inviting him.<<<

It would appear that there are two statements in one. 1) He is not welcome and 2) We will not be inviting him. Based on that, I don't think it's just a matter of his not being comped. The question remains just who he is not welcomed by.

-MJ

Stephen - Derek announced a "FISM World Championships of Childrens Entertainers" to be taking place at Blackpool 2010.

There is no such event. And there never was a "FISM World Championships of Childrens Entertainers" And neither was such an event sanctioned by anyone. This has now been officially confirmed.



No details were provided by the organisers. And no enquiries from anyone regarding the mystery event were answered. So no surprise that there was confusion regarding what possible shape or form this non-existent "FISM World Championships of Childrens Entertainers" was going to take.

Not surprisingly there has been no subsequent release correcting this erroneous announcement. It was just quietly deleted - I assume hoping that no one would notice.

Blackpool will be having their normal Childrens Magic contest as per normal.

It is not though the FISM World Championships of Childrens Entertainers as announced. Minor difference.

It was just a 'misunderstanding'

It appears that no one did say that the childrens' catagory was to be held at FISM, itself. I'm very curious about how the FISM name was hijacked for the competition, however. Is not FISM a protected name? Can I use it to promote a local elementary school talent show, for example?

Having a FISM category for Children's Entertainers is a worthwhile idea, provided you have an audience of children to perform for, and a group of qualified judges in that area.

Doing magic for children well is a complex endeavor, with its own set of psychological issues, as I learned when editing and publishing David Kaye's book Seriously Silly.

I also think Children's Entertainers are given short shrift in the magic world by other types of performers and should receive their due at FISM level. I assume that's what Derek Lever was aiming for and, perhaps, he was unaware that anything to do with FISM has to be approved by the body itself. To give him the benefit of the doubt, let's assume he was being a little overenthusiastic.

Good advice Stephen