Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?

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#29381 - 01/26/02 02:00 PM Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	Curios on everyones opinion. Which Okito box is the best ever made and whos routine (published) is the best you have seen?
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#29382 - 01/26/02 02:55 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	in my foolish personal opinion the zachary boxes are the best you can see them at jimzeemagic.com all of his stuff is great. I enjoy all of the coin box routines published in david roth's expert coin magic, they use original ideas and moves. Thats what I think. Noah Levine
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#29383 - 01/26/02 05:58 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
steve steve Member Registered: 04/13/09 Posts: 46	At risk of being drawn and quartered, I have a set of the Zee boxes and don't like the lid. I fully understand the reasoning, and I can say that if I used them every day, 1000 times a year, I probably would use them as you don't have any "issues" when using them. However, I can't get past the the lid that looks and feels way too big for the box. I know it's purpose, but it "looks" suspicious to everyone I have shown it to. I learned with my Johnson set, and I keep going back to them. [ January 26, 2002: Message edited by: Steve S. ]
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#29384 - 01/26/02 06:01 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	One question have you shown the lid to magicians or laymen, Noah Levine
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#29385 - 01/26/02 06:06 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
steve steve Member Registered: 04/13/09 Posts: 46	Laymen. With my Johnson boxes, the lid is proportional to the box, the Zee's aren't. Therefore, when they look at it, I get "There's something funny with that lid". Another thing I don't like it the difference in diameters. The box is large enough to make the click pass (I think that's what it's called) difficult. I find I really have to pinch my fingers in to get the coin held, which looks a tad un-natural. Like I said, I probably just have the problem of having learned on the Johnson's, and the Zee's are different enough that I have to relearn much of it. Probably just lazy on my part.
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#29386 - 01/26/02 06:27 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Bill Duncan Bill Duncan Registered: 03/13/08 Posts: 1242	Since we're on the subject of Okito boxes I'm thinking about the "Dragon" Okito box that's made from Pewter and has a dragon on the lid. Anyone have one and care to comment on it?
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#29387 - 01/26/02 06:49 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Richard Kaufman Richard Kaufman The Chief Genii Registered: 07/18/01 Posts: 12213 Loc: Washington DC	Okito made his original coin box from a pill box: a natural pre-existing object that people would recognize. NOW--what do you think your box SHOULD look like? The answer is ... nothing special, nothing unusual. No dragon!
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#29388 - 01/26/02 08:54 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Bill Duncan Bill Duncan Registered: 03/13/08 Posts: 1242	Richard, you forgot to mention that the prototype was used to vanish stomach pills, not coins! Perhaps an Okito box should look like a pill box, which damn sure isn't machined out of brass! The Dragon box looks like a snuff box, and based on conversations with a co-worker whose wife collects snuff boxes I have a theme around which to weave a small bit of magic. Glad to see you back even if it is to slap me around... $\:D$ Congratulations on the new arrival!
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#29389 - 01/26/02 10:10 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
George Olson George Olson Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 202 Loc: Tigard, OR	My "Main" box is a beat up Sasco Dollar size! Routine done five+ times a night. I collect boxes; favorite being a clear plastic I got from Chuck Leech years ago. When I'm on a nostalgia trip, i drag out my National Magic Co. fifty cent size. I also use a turned walnut box I bought from Steve Minch when he ran Micky Hades Shop in Seattle while I was working for the summer at a nice Resort near Port Townsend. As for a published routine, check out mine in Real Magic by Jerry MacGregor (sp), George
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#29390 - 01/27/02 12:15 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Bill Duncan Bill Duncan Registered: 03/13/08 Posts: 1242	Quote: Originally posted by George Olson: ...I also use a turned walnut box I bought from Steve Minch when he ran Micky Hades Shop in Seattle... Oh my god! I forgot all about those. Didn't they have a small green gem or button on the top of the lid? Were they turned by Dick Ferguson or some other NW guy?
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#29391 - 01/27/02 02:23 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
John Pezzullo John Pezzullo Member Registered: 03/16/08 Posts: 455	Quote: Okito made his original coin box from a pill box: a natural pre-existing object that people would recognize. NOW--what do you think your box SHOULD look like? The answer is ... nothing special, nothing unusual. No dragon! You could always says that it's a pill box from an old Chinese herbalist. $\:\)$
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#29392 - 01/27/02 04:36 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
steve steve Member Registered: 04/13/09 Posts: 46	George, thanks for mentioning that- I recently saw a clear one for sale and it immediately caught my attention and got me thinking. Anyone use a clear box? If so, how are they to work with? Only issue I see is there would be very light. [ January 27, 2002: Message edited by: Steve S. ]
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#29393 - 01/27/02 05:28 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Terry Terry Registered: 01/18/08 Posts: 256 Loc: Kentucky	Re Zachary boxes - have you seen Robert Bengel work them? Mr Zachary has a manuscript he sells with his boxes that has Robert's ideas on the boxes. You could also try to contact Robert for his lecture notes. Paul Cummins might have an idea on how to contact Robert. Last I heard, Robert was a salesman for Big Bertha, a golf club manufacturer in Atlanta. I personally like the feel & weight of the Zachary boxes.
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#29394 - 01/27/02 08:15 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	I share Richard's aversion to modifications that make the box look even more like apparatus than it needs to. The standard Johnson box suits me fine, although one I bought at Tannen's last year proved defective -- the lid was suitably loose over the opening but would stick to the bottom of the box. I brought it back to the store when David Roth happened to be there. "He's right," Mr. Roth said. "Ya can't do the MOVE!" It was nice having that calibre of validation on hand. Elements of the Mohammed Bey booklet of Okito Routines (published by Tannen's) have stood me in good stead for many years, particularly the handling of repeat penetrations of both the Okito box and a pack of cards. It took me a long time, though, to figure out that Bey's (ie., Sam Horowitz's) recommended turnover move -- in the course of shaking the box -- is badly flawed, both from the standpoint of misdirection and the fact that the rattling inevitably sounds different (with a brass box, anyway) before and after the turnover.
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#29395 - 01/27/02 09:14 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
George Olson George Olson Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 202 Loc: Tigard, OR	Quote: Originally posted by Bill Duncan: Oh my god! I forgot all about those. Didn't they have a small green gem or button on the top of the lid? Were they turned by Dick Ferguson or some other NW guy? Bill: Mine's got a Red one, I don't remember, ask Steve he'd know.
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#29396 - 01/27/02 11:00 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Richard Kaufman Richard Kaufman The Chief Genii Registered: 07/18/01 Posts: 12213 Loc: Washington DC	The best routines and sleights to use with the Okito coin box are David Roth's. They are light years ahead of what anyone else has ever done, even in the 15 years since I wrote David Roth's Expert Coin Magic. Don't bother to fool around with the other stuff: learn David's material. $\:\)$
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#29397 - 01/27/02 11:32 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Bill Duncan Bill Duncan Registered: 03/13/08 Posts: 1242	Chad Long's X-Tracting 4 is one of the best constructed box routines I've ever seen. It's in his lecture notes and uses a standard Boston style box. I believe there's a book of his magic in the works. The routine is in a class with Roth's material. You are so far ahead of the audience that there's simply no back tracking: Four coins are placed into a box. The lid is placed on the box. The box is placed on the table. The lid is lifted to show the coins. The coins vanish from the box and appear in the hands one at a time without opening the box until they'll all out. It's tough but not as hard as the Heavy Box routine in Expert Coin Magic. The best box I've seen is the Magna Coin Box from Johnson. It comes with a 'post' coin and has small circular indentions in the lid and bottom which appear to be design elements but actually allow you to use the box as a Boston style box (with the post coin). You don't have to switch the bottom because a normal coin won't work. You can see a picture here. David Roth, in addition to revitalizing the Okito box, has a coinbox set that kicks some serious butt! It's expensive but if you're a box fan it's a must have! You can find it here. [ January 27, 2002: Message edited by: Bill Duncan ]
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#29398 - 01/27/02 08:02 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	With the posts of the walnut boxes, it brought to my recollection of some boxes that look pretty nice turned out of Asian Padauk Burl and Black Palm from Central America. I haven't seen them in person, but they looked pretty nice from the pictures. Here is the link: http://www.shamrockmagicandcollectibles....3QVSNPX0?pid=18
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#29399 - 01/27/02 09:45 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Steve Hook Steve Hook Registered: 10/21/08 Posts: 619 Loc: North Carolina, USA	My absolute favorite coin box routine uses a Boston Box: "Monty Hall Goes Close-Up" by Jay Sankey (Magical Arts Journal; Vol. 1, #10; 5/87). I used it successfully for years. It has a little longer buildup, meaning you must pick the right place and time. Coincidentally, the last time I performed it was at a Super Bowl party, at the request of the host. It absolutely blew this group away. Basically, the effect is an impossible, ultra-convincing transposition of a borrowed ring and some coins. Hope you can check it out. Steve H [ January 28, 2002: Message edited by: Steve Hook ]
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#29400 - 01/27/02 10:43 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Paul Green Paul Green Registered: 03/15/08 Posts: 197 Loc: California	Hi, Another great routine for the Okito Box belongs to Ken Brooke. It appeared in one of the numbered manusripts. It is called the Magic Box. Coin penetrates not only the coin box, but a deck of cards as well. I have used this routine over the years and have found it to be quite nice. Regards, Paul Green
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#29401 - 01/28/02 02:46 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
reed mcclintock reed mcclintock Member Registered: 03/29/08 Posts: 143 Loc: Portland OR	Hello As far as routines go with Okito boxes, I bought, what I concider to be a truly dynamic routine. Released in 1981 by Shigeo Futagawa. Called Coin Box Routine. This a very straight forward stone cold fooler. Those who have it I am sure can attest to it. But I am also a big fan of his coin magic. so never mind what I said. dont look for the routine. forget I even mentioned it. what coin box routine. Thank you for taking the time to read this.(waving hands in front of face using jedi mind trick) "You don't want this routine".
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#29402 - 01/28/02 06:50 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	I have used the same Johnson Products one for over twenty years and it has held up over the test of time and abuse. My favorite routine to use with it for a long time has been a combination of "penetrations" with Mike Bernstein's routine (he used to lecture on it and it is on one of his videos) coupled with a plug box as a finale. PSIncerely Yours, Paul Alberstat http://www.bigfoot.com/~thoughtreader
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#29403 - 01/28/02 08:16 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	A brief aside: I did my Okito routine for my dentist last year after a drilling/filling session (I think my need to perform for him constitutes some variant of the Stockholm effect). As I packed up to leave, he noticed that I was securing my Okito box for safe transport with rubber bands. He then went to his cabinet and took out a small, round foam-rubber-lined plastic case used for transporting newly manufactured dental crowns. It was a perfect fit for my Johnson box. I've carried my Okito box in this case ever since and haven't had to paw through my shoulder bag looking for the lid and loose coins, etc. Next time you hit your dentist up for dental dam, you might want to ask if s/he has any of those cases lying around too. [ January 28, 2002: Message edited by: Ralph Bonheim ]
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#29404 - 01/28/02 09:27 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Jon Racherbaumer Jon Racherbaumer Registered: 01/22/08 Posts: 713 Loc: New Orleans	I've been racking my incredibly-shrinking-brain for any vagrant memory of having seen any magician perform an Okito Box routine in public for lay people or any professional performing a routine on television (for millions of people). However, over the years I've seen countless routines at magic conventions and on instructional video-tapes; and, when pressed, I occasionally perform Marlo's "S.O.C." routine or Aronson's "S.O.See-Through" variation. When Okito concocted the routine using the pill boxes of yesteryear, the prop radiated a certain ordinary, commonplace aura. Later, it became a dealer's delight--an evergreen prop that could be tarted-up in countless styles, gaffed to a fare-thee-well, and used is thousands of wild and wacky ways. As a magician's "plaything," it is endlessly fascinating; a perfect prop for lazy, crazy Saturday Sessions. However... ...as we are now continually chided by Mystery School Adherents and sniffers of the Actors-As-Presenters Army, we are asked, "What's your motivation, Captain Marvel?" "What's your narrative spin?" "How will you make that little weird box and the antics of your little coins really meaningful?" (long pause) "Never mind," they say, walking away, "I see that you are deeply discussing the merits of the box's design." P.S. Please don't misunderstand me. I own and cherish the 31 Okito boxes now in my drawer. I even have one with a dragon on its lid and I take them out every six months to polish away the tarnish. My borderline rant, my friends, is only meant to punctuate the thread with a "fray" possibly worth more discussion. Did it work? Onward... [ January 28, 2002: Message edited by: Jon Racherbaumer ]
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#29405 - 01/28/02 11:14 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Steve Bryant Steve Bryant Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 230 Loc: Bloomington IN	I have seen Carl Andrews do the Okito box for a lay audience.
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#29406 - 01/28/02 11:32 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	Good gravy, Mr. Racherbaumer! What's my motivation? OK, I'll have a crack at this (since anything beats resuming work on my videoscript about overactive-bladder therapies). If I can rephrase slightly, what's the justification for having and using a coin box? Here are some answers: 1. As I "position" it, the Okito box is the box my coins come in (although I may produce one or two more in some magical fashion). It's not a common object, but it is a reasonable container for some coins. In that sense, magic with a coin box is almost as well justified as magic involving a card case. 2. In my own coin box patter, I describe the coins and box as miniature representations of the magician and his lovely assistant (JFK and Elizabeth Regina, respectively; and I do crack a joke apologizing for adhering to gender stereotypes), along with their locked trunk. Miniprop standing in for maxiprop. 3. Without overdoing it, I have used the Okito box as a hedge against the too-perfect nature of some of my coins-only work: "You see, the way this box works is, it's got an invisible hole through which a contortionist coin can squeeze." Put some heat on the box, since it can take it, and take a little off my sleight-weary hands. 4. My entire Okito routine lasts maybe a minute and a half, and it has left friends, colleagues, and random ne'er-do-wells moderately slack-jawed with amazement. What better justification? Of course, for a magician who produces four coins visually from thin air and then pulls a coin box out of his/her pocket for a couple of other diversions, there's less justification going on. Rational routining is essential. But there's not a lot of justification in the universe for three chrome-plated cups with nylon-mesh balls either. ciao r
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#29407 - 01/28/02 11:51 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	In the book monetas,monetas y monetas, Juan Tamariz has an Okito Box squenze described. It is based on Ken Brookes routine but has some interesting things in it. Has everybody a chance to see Ken Brookes routine from Mr. Brooke? I would likedo know if he use it only as a dealer item or if he did this for lay audiences.
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#29408 - 01/28/02 02:46 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Paul Green Paul Green Registered: 03/15/08 Posts: 197 Loc: California	Hi Frank, As I mentioned above, I have used the Ken Brooke routine for lay audiences. It is a very good routine. Most of the things Ken did for magicians played well for lay people. I owe a lot to Ken Brooke. As an additional routine, I would also suggest the Milt Kort routine from Bobo. The O-Korto routine has been the inspiration for many routines. Regards, Paul Green
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#29409 - 01/28/02 02:49 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Jon Racherbaumer Jon Racherbaumer Registered: 01/22/08 Posts: 713 Loc: New Orleans	The question posed by the Mystery-School guy (not me) was about the performer's "motivation" as an actor in a dramatic situation rather than asking about a motivation for using an odd, metal box. BTW, Ralph, thanks for sharing your rationales for using the box. They are useful to the guys who still use the Okito box in the real world. This is indeed a good thing. Onward...
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#29410 - 01/28/02 04:36 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	Hmm...not sure I want to meet up with this Mystery School guy. Penance time: back to the overactive-bladder script (the things I must do to earn the coins that go in the box!). Cheers
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#29411 - 01/28/02 05:19 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
John Pezzullo John Pezzullo Member Registered: 03/16/08 Posts: 455	Jon Racherbaumer wrote: Quote: I've been racking my incredibly-shrinking-brain for any vagrant memory of having seen any magician perform an Okito Box routine in public for lay people or any professional performing a routine on television (for millions of people). Keeping in mind that my brain is also subject to intermittent shrinkage......didn't Don Alan perfrom an Okito Box routine in one of his "Magic Ranch" television shows?
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#29412 - 01/28/02 05:27 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
John Pezzullo John Pezzullo Member Registered: 03/16/08 Posts: 455	Another solid routine that found its way into print was Fred Kaps' 'Okorto For Two'. It was published in Jeff Busby's "Arcane" (Issue #11) back in 1984.
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#29413 - 01/28/02 05:48 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
John Pezzullo John Pezzullo Member Registered: 03/16/08 Posts: 455	...and let's not forget the "big bucks" coin box routines that incorporate gaffed coins. David Stahl's 'The World's Most Expensive Okito Box Routine', published in "Don't Stall, Stahl!" (1978), requires the following: -Hoo Koin Box -Copper/Silver/Brass set -Chinatown Half that matches the CSB set -Copper/Silver coin -regular Half Dollar -regular English Penny John Mendoza, who authored the manuscript, wrote that it was the best Okito Box routine that he'd ever seen.
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#29414 - 01/28/02 05:56 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	Ahhh...the Okito Box! There's something about the little brass nugget that captures our imagination. We ponder it, feel it, listen to it... "Is there any way I can get this coin out of here without removing the lid?", he says. "No," comes the reply. And away we go. There's a beautiful simplicity inherent in this prop that drives us all nuts. Is there a more appealing sound then that lid sliding across the box? Whooshing across and snapping it shut? Perhaps the rifle of a perfect Faro... Transpositions, transformations, penetrations...it's got a lot going for it. To be really successful with it, your audience has to get involved, somehow, someway...get them involved. Otherwise it's an expose', or worse! a puzzle.
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#29415 - 01/29/02 07:40 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Harvey Rosenthal Harvey Rosenthal Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 45 Loc: Montgomery Village, MD—USA	I must strongly disagree with Richard Kaufman's statement that David Roth's work with the Okito Coin box is the best there is. Without question, THE ABSOLUTELY FINEST ROUTINES AND SLEIGHTS EVER DEVELOPED WITH AN OKITO COIN BOX WERE THOSE CREATED BY THE LATE FRANK THOMPSON OF BALTIMORE, MARYLAND. THERE IS NO CLOSE SECOND!!!! Frank developed many seminal sleights and moves and his routines were nothing short of sensational. I am well familiar with the Okito Coin Box work of David Roth. It is very good. However, it pales in comparison to what Frank Thompson did!!!! If Richard had seen Frank's work, I have no doubt he would agree with me. Over the years I have met a number of magicians who were very familiar with David Roth's Okito Coin Box magic and were fortunate enough to have seen Frank Thompson's Okito Coin Box work. They all felt as I do. Frank Thompson was the best by far. [ January 29, 2002: Message edited by: Harvey Rosenthal ]
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#29416 - 01/29/02 07:43 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Rene Clement Rene Clement Registered: 01/28/08 Posts: 105 Loc: Queens NY	Does anyone still remember the Sam Schwartz "Incredibox" ? This was the ultimate Okito Box in it's time.
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#29417 - 01/29/02 08:36 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Richard Kaufman Richard Kaufman The Chief Genii Registered: 07/18/01 Posts: 12213 Loc: Washington DC	Regarding Harvey's statement about the Okito Box work of Frank Thompson's versus David Roth's: it is well to keep in mind that there is no love lost between David and Harvey, and I would say that Harvey, despite his inevitable protest, is not the best judge of David Roth's work with the Okito Box. I have seen Howie Schwarzman perform some of Frank Thompson's Okito box work and it was good, but it did not compare to the Roth material. Now that's just my opinion, of course, but it's worth something, isn't it?
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#29418 - 01/30/02 03:02 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	We have stumbled on the vintage where the gripes of Roth are stored.
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#29419 - 01/31/02 08:04 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Pete Biro Pete Biro Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 303 Loc: Hollyweird	So, what is the best size box? Quarters, halves or big bux? _________________________ Stay tooned.
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#29420 - 01/31/02 03:01 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Harvey Rosenthal Harvey Rosenthal Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 45 Loc: Montgomery Village, MD—USA	When I first came in contact with this thread, I read all the posts. One stood out like a red flag. It was my friend Richard Kaufman’s post where he stated "The best routines and sleights to use with the Okito coin box are David Roth's. They are light years ahead of what anyone else has ever done, even in the 15 years since I wrote David Roth's Expert Coin Magic. Don't bother to fool around with the other stuff: learn David's material." Richard's remarks are, in my opinion, colored by his friendship with David Roth and the fact that he published David's book. In his response to my post comparing the Okito Coin Box work of Frank Thompson with that of David Roth, Richard stated that, "it is well to keep in mind that there is no love lost between David and Harvey, and I would say that Harvey, despite his inevitable protest, is not the best judge of David Roth’s work with the Okito Box." Richard is quite correct that David Roth is not one of my favorite people. However it is insulting when he imputes that, because I do not like David personally, my comparison of his Okito Coin Box work with Frank Thompson’s cannot be fair-minded. I have never stated anywhere, to anyone, that David’s work with the Okito Coin Box was deficient in any respect. In fact, I have praised his work in this area to many people. In my recent post I stated that, "I am well familiar with the Okito Coin Box work of David Roth It is very good." I mean that sincerely. Richard never met Frank Thompson and obviously never saw him do any of his Okito Coin Box magic. His evaluation of Frank’s work in this area, as he states, is based on having seen Howie Schwarzman perform some of Frank’s coin box magic. In his opinion, Richard states that the Frank Thompson Okito Coin Box work that he saw Howie Schwarzman perform "was good, but it did not compare to the Roth material." The last sentence of his post is my favorite: "Now that's just my opinion, of course, but it's worth something, isn't it?" Since he asked a question, he certainly deserves a frank answer -- No Richard, your opinions regarding Frank Thompson, whom you never saw work, is worth less than nothing! I knew Frank Thompson well and spent a great deal of time with him, especially after I moved to Maryland from New York City in 1970. We got together frequently and Frank shared a great deal of his card and coin magic with me. I have known David Roth since he was about 12 years old. As I mentioned earlier, I am very familiar with his Okito Coin Box work. Over the years I have seen him do a number of his Okito Coin Box routines and have read everything he has published in this area. My comparison of the Okito Coin Box work of Thompson and Roth is based on an intimate knowledge of their work in this area. I did not denigrate Roth's Okito Coin Box magic. I simply indicated that in comparison to Frank Thompson's sleights and routines, it was not nearly as good. My opinion is shared by many knowledgeable magicians who have seen both Thompson and Roth work. As you may well know, Robert Oppenheimer was one of the finest physicists in the middle of the last century. When compared to his contemporary, Albert Einstein, Oppenheimer paled in comparison. Harvey
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#29421 - 01/31/02 03:06 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Brian Morton Brian Morton Registered: 03/12/08 Posts: 343 Loc: Bawlamer, Merlin	We have stumbled on the vintage where the gripes of Roth are stored. Priceless! On topic, however, I think Roth's Out With Five is the best seated Okito routine, however, if you don't work with tables, Jamy Ian Swiss's "In The Hands Okito" from his new 2001 Magic Castle Notes is awesome. He showed it to me and my wife at JR's on 46th in NYC back in '95 and I waited six years for him to publish it, and it was worth the wait. But learning the Roth Spill Out Steal is the penance one pays for such a great routine -- 'taint easy. brian
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#29422 - 02/01/02 04:28 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	Quote: Priceless! [Full disclosure: The pun originated with cartoonist Arno Roth]
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#29423 - 02/10/02 04:34 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Eric Rose Eric Rose Member Registered: 02/08/08 Posts: 220 Loc: Franklin, Indiana	I don't imagine many will see this since I've come in so late in the thread, but I happened across a nice impromptu okito box last week. Several coffee shops now carry hi-intensity mints in Clik-Clak boxes ( I got mine at a Borders Bookstore coffee shop). This is a small round metal box with a unique lid that "locks" onto the box when you press in the lid sides. It unlocks by pressing the center of the lid, expanding the lid sides again. The name comes from the clicking noise of doing this action. The lid locks equally well on either the top or the bottom of the box. The box diameter holds Morgan dollars with about 1/4" inch to spare. The box is made of stamped painted aluminum, and is lighter than most boxes, so it takes a little getting used to for "the move". Once you get the touch, it flips like a gem. I'm particularly partial to it right now for two reasons: first, you don't have to spend much time describing what it is. Secondly, the locking lid explains why you would want to keep coins in the box - it really does protect them. I showed this to Jerry Phillips at Robert's Magic in Davenport the other day and he inspired the name "Neato Okito". I'm sure dozens of guys have discovered this box before me, but I think this takes the trick back to the impromptu roots it came from.
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#29424 - 02/23/02 10:21 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
cataquet cataquet Member Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 7 Loc: England	Sam Schwartz's Incredibox!! My God, I remember that one. In fact, I still have it. I used to use it all the time, but when the slot box came along, it was retired. I eventually got a Jim Zachary slot box, and I've just gotten used to it. If you think that lid on the Z box is big, look at the Incredibox. The lid alone was bigger than the Z box! The Incredibox had a coin that was magnetic and could disappear into the lid or the base of the box. So, you could turn a okito box into a boston box, and then back into an okito box ditching the extra coin in two moves. Very clever, but, as I said, it was a bit too big (and too gimmicky). Bye for now Harold [ February 23, 2002: Message edited by: Harold Cataquet ]
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#29425 - 02/13/05 11:25 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	Hello all, from a new member that is returning to magic after 43 years! I have a question about my David Roth 3-box set I purchased from a magic shop. I know the dealer is reputable, and is one of the largest. I bought the 3-box Roth set plus the David Roth Ultimate Coin Magic Vol 2 DVD. Upon arriving home, I was startled to see that the 3 boxes were of less thickness than the other boxes I have seen. The walls are about 1/2 the thickness of a US Half or UK Penny. Also, the manual appears to be a photocopy. Every thing I read online about this set (I researched before plopping down $100!!) said these were the best, but mine seem so thin! I do not wish to offend the owner of the shop; he is a very reputable dealer and 1 of the largest. However, I feel there was a mistake made and need to know before I take it back! Any suggestions about the set and how I should approach the shop would be greatly appreciated. Sincerely Chalmers
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#29426 - 03/05/05 06:28 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Anonymous Anonymous Unregistered	I finally got up my nerve and expressed my concern to the owner of the shop where I bought my Roth boxes. They are indeed David Roth's set. They were purchased directly from Mr. Roth at a convention.
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#29427 - 03/08/05 09:35 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
Ruben Padilla Ruben Padilla Registered: 01/20/08 Posts: 104 Loc: Los Angeles	Interesting, Chalmers. I also purchased a Roth set from a reputable dealer in California (now out of business), and the instructions were photocopied, but the quality of the boxes was fine. In fact, upon closer examination, all three boxes were engraved with a tiny "z". I quickly learned that they were the famous Zachary boxes, packaged as the David Roth set. I didn't complain because I happen to like the Z boxes, but does anybody know of this (Z boxes being sold as Roth's)???
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#29428 - 03/08/05 12:21 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion?
cataquet cataquet Member Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 7 Loc: England	Jim Zachary used to make them for David Roth. Then something happened, and David found someone else to make them for him. I think that the next generation of the Roth's boxes were in black. I think that later, Roth went back to the brass look. That's all I know...
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#188094 - 02/20/09 10:44 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Anonymous]
darticus darticus Member Registered: 02/20/09 Posts: 6	I am using the Beyond Okito box and trying to learn how to do the moves. Even the okito turnover is a problem when you can't see it done. Any thoughts on where I can get some instructions? Thanks Ron
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#198235 - 07/13/09 12:50 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: darticus]
Chris Deleo Chris Deleo Registered: 07/06/09 Posts: 86	you can do no better than Roth's work in Expert Coin Magic. Just about 90 pages of that book are devoted to coin box magic. All your sleights are covered and explained and the routines are top notch...some, like his box switches, are knuckle busters, but most of the material is within reach of the dedicated coin worker. Beyond that, Dave Neighbors released a book on the subject. I do not own it, but if it's anything like his other books, you're to get some great, off-beat routines. His thinking is always outside the box...no pun intended Good luck
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#198237 - 07/13/09 12:59 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Chris Deleo]
Jonathan Townsend Jonathan Townsend Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 3291 Loc: Westchester, NY	Where is Frank Thompson's okito box work in print?
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#198238 - 07/13/09 01:04 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Jonathan Townsend]
Richard Kaufman Richard Kaufman The Chief Genii Registered: 07/18/01 Posts: 12213 Loc: Washington DC	It's not.
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#198239 - 07/13/09 01:05 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Jonathan Townsend]
Jonathan Townsend Jonathan Townsend Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 3291 Loc: Westchester, NY	What are your thoughts on starting the routine with the lid on the box but it's stuck there. IE the box and lid are implicitly magical and perhaps demonstrated so by a switch early in the routine after the items is examined for a moment. Edited by Jonathan Townsend (07/13/09 01:10 PM) Edit Reason: perspicious but not mean - even to /r/tards. I won't give them the benefit of the doubt as regards being /b/tards.
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#198242 - 07/13/09 01:11 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Jonathan Townsend]
Joe Pecore Joe Pecore Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 511 Loc: Northern Virginia	Looks like there was a little something by Frank Thompson in Apocalypse: http://archive.denisbehr.de/archive/resu...all&order=title
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#198243 - 07/13/09 01:22 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Joe Pecore]
Chris Deleo Chris Deleo Registered: 07/06/09 Posts: 86	Jonathan, so the routine starts with the lid and box "stuck"? Then a switch, then the coins are dumped out? As an aside, in Expert Coin Magic, Roth has an amazing switch of one box for another...the effect is startling. Magician waves his hands over an empty box and it's suddenly filled with coins. Edited by Chris Deleo (07/13/09 01:23 PM)
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#198244 - 07/13/09 01:33 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Chris Deleo]
Jonathan Townsend Jonathan Townsend Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 3291 Loc: Westchester, NY	Chris, what I'm asking about is whether it's worth making the point about the box by starting off with the audience unable to get the lid off the bottom. I'm toying with is a box inside a pouch and what's inside the box... think Sandman. My old routine starts with four loose coins and the box appears around the coins. $\:\)$ It ends with the box openly lifted off the coins and then vanishing. Geoff Latta also published a startling version of that effect with the box suddenly filling with coins. Edited by Jonathan Townsend (07/13/09 01:35 PM) Edit Reason: Something old, something new - not borrowing without permission.
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#198246 - 07/13/09 01:50 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Jonathan Townsend]
Chris Deleo Chris Deleo Registered: 07/06/09 Posts: 86	Hmm...Id have to see your routine in action... The biggest issue with coin box routines is getting people to give a damn. Most coin box routines are expository. Which can be fine, but it's nice to get the audience involved in some way. I have the same issue with 3 Fly routines. But that's another story. Bare in mind, Im a coin box freak. I just love the damn thing. Im developing a routine myself...kind of a multi-phased beast. My only requirement was an equal balance of exposition vs. audience involvement Edited by Chris Deleo (07/13/09 01:55 PM) Edit Reason: more info
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#198260 - 07/13/09 06:26 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Joe Pecore]
Terry Terry Registered: 01/18/08 Posts: 256 Loc: Kentucky	Originally Posted By: Joe Pecore Looks like there was a little something by Frank Thompson in Apocalypse: http://archive.denisbehr.de/archive/resu...all&order=title I don't see how Denis has attached Frank Thompson to this. Reading the description, it was shown to Harry L. by Irv Tannen who said it belonged to his brother Lou Tannen.
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#198289 - 07/14/09 04:15 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Terry]
Philippe Billot Philippe Billot Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 210 Loc: PARIS - FRANCE	Apocalypse, Vol. 2, No.4, April 1979, page 192, para. 2: "And, Howie Schwarzman tells me the the One-Hand Okito Box Sequence (Vol. 1, No. 10), credited to Irv Tannen, really belongs to the late Franj Thompson. Frank showed it to Howie, who showed it to Irv, who showed it to me... and so it goes." Morality: publish your stuff as soon as you can !
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#198291 - 07/14/09 07:28 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Philippe Billot]
Bob Farmer Bob Farmer Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 234 Loc: Short card above selection.	Mojo Boogie Boxes is a unique routine with a cool presentation. Modestly prevents me from saying more. http://www.roykueppers.com/mojoboogieboxes.html
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#198292 - 07/14/09 09:13 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Bob Farmer]
Jonathan Townsend Jonathan Townsend Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 3291 Loc: Westchester, NY	What a cool reframing of the three shell game - and you can use their quarters!
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#198303 - 07/14/09 01:50 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Jonathan Townsend]
Chris Deleo Chris Deleo Registered: 07/06/09 Posts: 86	Tommy Wonder published an okito box routine. Really nice piece of magic. I remember learning it thinking it was almost like theater, the way it was constructed.
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#198322 - 07/14/09 05:55 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Chris Deleo]
Pete McCabe Pete McCabe Registered: 01/18/08 Posts: 1368 Loc: Woodland Hills	A month or so ago one of my students had a cheap color vision box and was doing it for his friends in homeroom. I took it and made the inner block penetrate through the box and my hand. The kids were absolutely flabbergasted. I believe that the basic Okito Box principle (i.e. the lid on the bottom) is one of magic's great secrets and that one day I will find a natural object to make a great trick using it. The search continues.
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#198331 - 07/14/09 07:46 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Pete McCabe]
Bob Farmer Bob Farmer Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 234 Loc: Short card above selection.	Pete, the Okito Box and its friends (Boston, etc.) can be natural objects -- well, sort of. I used to do the David Roth SOM routine -- but the box always bothered me: what is this #$@$% box supposed to be? I finally said they were used by safe crackers to practice. I'd turn the lid back and forth a few times as if there was a combination. I also had a brass box on which I had the letters "CHUBB" engraved on the lid ("Brinks" or "Wells Fargo" would also work here). I said it was used to secure diamonds. Other possibilities: engrave a the nuclear danger symbol and say it's made of lead and used to store isotopes. U.F. Grant had a clear Okito Box -- it was plastic and was probably some sort of drug store box for pills.
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#198334 - 07/14/09 08:37 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Bob Farmer]
Tortuga Tortuga Registered: 04/04/08 Posts: 64 Loc: Missouri	Nobody has mentioned the original Rings 'N Things Long John Silver Okito Coin Box. Magnetic box with some really beautiful effects possible. Should have bought one when I had the chance, but that was in the 80s, and as a teenager, was a lot of money. One of the nicest boxes that I saw was made personally for Chris Kenner by Tim Star when Tim and Chris lived in St. Louis. It was copper and pretty much the same design as a Zachary box with the big lid. I pretty much drooled over it. Anyone remember a young man named Howard Dennemark (sp?). He put out two small booklets published by the late Gene Devoe of the Magic Den in St. Louis. He had some nice touches and a move he claimed to have originated called the Dennemark drop. Very nice loading move that is knacky, but once you have it is pretty deceptive. Haven't heard from him since the early 80s. I like my Zachary boxes and don't mind the lid at all. Never had anyone say anything about the lid. Maybe if they could compare side-by-side, Zachary vs. Johnson they might wonder. But when they don't have anything to compare it to? _________________________ It's never crowded on the extra mile.....
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#198335 - 07/14/09 08:44 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Tortuga]
Chris Deleo Chris Deleo Registered: 07/06/09 Posts: 86	there's some independent stuff floating around on youtube. most of it is dreadful, but there's this one titled "launch coin box" by "koudai". The routine is set to music. Really beautiful.
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#198337 - 07/14/09 08:55 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Bob Farmer]
rkosby rkosby Registered: 03/13/08 Posts: 51 Loc: MD	I don't like Okito boxes. I owned a Johnson box until I dented the lid. There are a few effects I like though. Chad Long's backfire in Okito Reverse-Embly on DVD 1. Chastain Chriswell's "Outside the Box" especially when all the coins go back into the box at once. Bill Goodwin's finale. Mohammed Bey's routine and the extras from Edward J. McLaughlin. Ray
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#198344 - 07/14/09 09:57 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Pete McCabe]
David Acer David Acer Registered: 02/09/08 Posts: 79 Loc: Montreal, Canada	Originally Posted By: Pete McCabe I believe that the basic Okito Box principle (i.e. the lid on the bottom) is one of magic's great secrets and that one day I will find a natural object to make a great trick using it. The search continues. Instead of trying to find something natural that's similar to an Okito box, let's work on getting actual Okito boxes out there in the real world via a ShamWow style infomercial that makes the kids think it's something they can't live without, like an Ipod earbud-holder, or a gum spitoon. Then we go out and blow people away with their own freakin' O' boxes! _________________________ http://www.davidacer.com http://www.youtube.com/noblegasproductions
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#198346 - 07/14/09 10:43 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: David Acer]
Richard Kaufman Richard Kaufman The Chief Genii Registered: 07/18/01 Posts: 12213 Loc: Washington DC	I think it might gain popularity as a container for illicit drugs.
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#198359 - 07/15/09 03:59 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Richard Kaufman]
Pete McCabe Pete McCabe Registered: 01/18/08 Posts: 1368 Loc: Woodland Hills	I could see a round clear (or translucent) plastic box holding a Spanish piece-of-eight or other mystical coin. Then just do the penetration effect with one coin. That could be very effective and everything would make sense as the round plastic box is a standard coin collector's supply. A quick check shows lots of small clear plastic boxes that look like they could work. I guess a trip to the craft story is in my future.
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#198365 - 07/15/09 09:16 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Pete McCabe]
rkosby rkosby Registered: 03/13/08 Posts: 51 Loc: MD	I forgot to mention that Dominique Duvivier's solid box finale is good too.
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#198369 - 07/15/09 09:30 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: rkosby]
Jonathan Townsend Jonathan Townsend Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 3291 Loc: Westchester, NY	the clack box may have some potential. The basic problem, for those who have not yet tried, is that the lid tends to ease off the box and let the contents loose in your pocket.
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#198378 - 07/15/09 11:17 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Jonathan Townsend]
Pete McCabe Pete McCabe Registered: 01/18/08 Posts: 1368 Loc: Woodland Hills	By the way, Ray, isn't it about time for a trip to LA? We miss you.
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#204833 - 10/06/09 05:17 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Anonymous]
HannahMagic HannahMagic Member Registered: 10/06/09 Posts: 4	Michael Rubinstein has a good one on his dvds. its not one of the newer ones its back from a while ago.
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#204886 - 10/07/09 04:45 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Chris Deleo]
Tom Bennett Tom Bennett Registered: 07/15/08 Posts: 40	Originally Posted By: Chris Deleo Tommy Wonder published an okito box routine. Really nice piece of magic. I remember learning it thinking it was almost like theater, the way it was constructed. Does anybody know where he published it? I'm pretty sure that it's not in the books of wonder! _________________________ Check out my magic blog http://www.escamoteur.de
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#204889 - 10/07/09 04:49 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Tom Bennett]
Tom Bennett Tom Bennett Registered: 07/15/08 Posts: 40	After watching the New York Coin Seminar Vol 10 DVD I really favour Davids Routine that is only possible in this clean way with his box. Also I'm very fond of the Routines of Mike Gallo as they are really entertaining and will for sure work for lay people. I have a video clip of David performing his routine in my review of the DVD on my blog: http://escamoteur.de/wordpress/index.php/2009/08/review-new-york-coin-seminar-dvd-vol-10/ Best Tom _________________________ Check out my magic blog http://www.escamoteur.de
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#204916 - 10/07/09 09:11 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Tom Bennett]
Tom Frame Tom Frame Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 307 Loc: San Francisco	Most layfolk have never seen anything that looks like an Okito Box. In performing these effects, I'm very interested in what you guys call this object. I shudder to think that the "pill box" presentation is still in heavy rotation. What is this thing? How do you rationalize its utility and yes, it's very existence? Why is this object important to your character, and how do you make the crowd care? Seriously curious.
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#204942 - 10/08/09 10:08 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Tom Frame]
Bob Farmer Bob Farmer Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 234 Loc: Short card above selection.	Back when I was actually doing coin box tricks, this issue was always concerning. What the Hell is this little box? I came up with a couple of ideas: 1. It was a secret device that safecrackers used to practice. I would turn the top one way, then the other, as if there was a combination lock. This also tied into the effect since I could say that some master safecrackers practiced so much, they could remove the money without actually opening the safe. 2. On one of my boxes, I had a jeweler engrave the word "CHUBB" on the top. I then explained that CHUBB made these little boxes for keeping small valuable items like diamonds, radio isotopes and these 1919 gold silver dollars .... 3. These are two knobs off the control panel of the flying saucer that crashed at Roswell. They fit together like this, but we don't know why. 4. This is the box the U.S. mint uses as the standard to check the size of coins. This is the box Las Vegas uses to check the size of poker chips.
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#204953 - 10/08/09 12:43 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Bob Farmer]
jason156 jason156 Registered: 08/06/08 Posts: 65 Loc: Daytona Beach	I believe Wallace Murphy refers to it as his "time out box" where he puts his coins when they are naughty..
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#205001 - 10/09/09 03:07 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Bob Farmer]
Tom Bennett Tom Bennett Registered: 07/15/08 Posts: 40	Originally Posted By: Bob Farmer 2. On one of my boxes, I had a jeweler engrave the word "CHUBB" on the top. I then explained that CHUBB made these little boxes for keeping small valuable items like diamonds, radio isotopes and these 1919 gold silver dollars .... 3. These are two knobs off the control panel of the flying saucer that crashed at Roswell. They fit together like this, but we don't know why. I really like these two: 2. A good example that it's always a good idea to modify a prop in a way that it makes sense 3. I just like that, it's awesome! I want to contradict Richard that a Dragon on the box is a bad idea. IF your role is someone who collects rare items, so this could perfectly make sense. Best Tom _________________________ Check out my magic blog http://www.escamoteur.de
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#205003 - 10/09/09 04:44 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Tom Bennett]
Hannes Freytag Hannes Freytag Registered: 01/18/08 Posts: 19 Loc: Germany	Originally Posted By: Tom Bennett Originally Posted By: Chris Deleo Tommy Wonder published an okito box routine. Really nice piece of magic. I remember learning it thinking it was almost like theater, the way it was constructed. Does anybody know where he published it? I'm pretty sure that it's not in the books of wonder! the Routine of Tommy Wonder is published in his books and on the video tapes (as far as i can remember called "coins across and back with interlude") Hannes
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#205004 - 10/09/09 04:49 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Hannes Freytag]
Denis Behr Denis Behr Registered: 01/18/08 Posts: 160 Loc: Munich	That's right. Here it is.
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#205693 - 10/19/09 10:34 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Denis Behr]
Jim Riser Jim Riser Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 549 Loc: Tucson, AZ	What is the Okito Box? Here's my view on this question: http://www.jamesriser.com/ManInMaze/PillBox.html There is a lot of running without being chased going on regarding this prop. Jim _________________________ http://www.jamesriser.com/Magic/JamesRiserMagic.html
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#205700 - 10/20/09 01:55 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Jim Riser]
Tom Bennett Tom Bennett Registered: 07/15/08 Posts: 40	Couldn't agree more with Jim. There is so much stuff out there for normal people that alomost nobody really wonders about anything anymore. Tom _________________________ Check out my magic blog http://www.escamoteur.de
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#205705 - 10/20/09 08:55 AM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Tom Bennett]
Jonathan Townsend Jonathan Townsend Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 3291 Loc: Westchester, NY	I'm cool wiht the dainty salt dish or sweetner container for the table... but when one pretends to carry coins in it and in ones pocket too... just stretches credulity. Jim - any takers for an inset version of the ball vase shell gaff (rim with coin sits on box rim) ? Seems a natural for the coin guys to treat the coinbox as a ball vase and makes for one heck of all-at-once appear/vanish/transform method with no turnovers required. The sleight of hand crowd will likely intuit the edge grip options where the gaff and coins get moved and a classic palm of the gaff can make almost visual magic of it. $\:\)$ Edited by Jonathan Townsend (10/20/09 09:07 AM) Edit Reason: yes, really.
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#205716 - 10/20/09 12:00 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Jonathan Townsend]
Jim Riser Jim Riser Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 549 Loc: Tucson, AZ	Jon; Who says that the coins need to be carried in a metal pill box? All a performer needs to do is bring out the "pill box", dump a couple pills from it, perhaps do a pill effect, say something to the effect that "by the way I discovered that half dollars just fit this pill box", then move on with the coin effects. The coin type of "ball vase shell" idea is doable but would require a specially made side grooved box to help conceal the extra shell. The box lid could be engraved as mentioned in my earlier post. Cute idea, Jon. I wonder how many people would be interested in such a toy. From a manufacturing standpoint, my only concerns would be the coin used. Some guys use the clad coins and others use the older silver coins - so the best way to make the shell would be as an "empty" into which the performer fixes a coin to match the others. Jon, I have a couple ideas about the construction of such a gimmick that we could discuss by email. I'm concerned about the practical application of your idea. Anyone interested in Jon's idea? If there is enough interest, we could make up a number of these with full credit and royalties going to Jon. Jim _________________________ http://www.jamesriser.com/Magic/JamesRiserMagic.html
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#205718 - 10/20/09 12:24 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Jim Riser]
Jonathan Townsend Jonathan Townsend Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 3291 Loc: Westchester, NY	Thanks Jim, I believe there is/was such a gaff on the market back in the early 1980s though not with the modern magnetic and fine machining available today. I recall seeing it at Tannen's and also noticed the thing was not being explored by my peers back then. As an alternative to the turnover based work ... well there's a reason the ball and vase is a classic. Will email to follow up after work. $\:\)$
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#205725 - 10/20/09 02:17 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Jonathan Townsend]
Bob Farmer Bob Farmer Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 234 Loc: Short card above selection.	I designed just such a coin box several years ago. The box had ridges to conceal the gaff. The gaff could go either on top of the box -- where it would make the box appear to be full of coins -- or it could be stowed on the bottom of the box, so the box looked empty. Or it could be inverted on the bottom of the box, so the box could be used like a Boston box. Or it could be stolen so the box could be examined. I'll have to dig it out and send it to Jim.
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#205741 - 10/20/09 05:29 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Bob Farmer]
Bob Farmer Bob Farmer Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 234 Loc: Short card above selection.	I just found my notes and the diagrams for this -- it dates from 1998.
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#205743 - 10/20/09 05:38 PM Re: Best Okito Box and Routine...Your opinion? [Re: Bob Farmer]
Jonathan Townsend Jonathan Townsend Registered: 01/17/08 Posts: 3291 Loc: Westchester, NY	Bob, the box I saw at Tannen's was around 1978. As best I recall the gaff lip just extended over the rim and the lid was shallow so one could lift both. Nothing fancy with ridges or magnets.
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